Jesus Christ's horrible death

by Crazyguy 27 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Carl Jung wrote a suffering classic. The Problem of Job raises the fundamental human question. Is suffering necessary? Somehow someone recommended the book to me in my time of agony. Jung's father was a high ranking Lutheran bishop so he was raised in a sophisticated household that must have been very unlike the Witnesses. Jung analyses the story of Job and finds God lacking basic human morals. The book is an extraordinary indictment of Christianity.

    There are other points of view. I know from personal experience what Paul called "the folly of the cross." Suffering is a human lot. Sometimes when you are deep in pain, projecting suffering on to a god is powerful. Roman Catholics cling to crucifixes. Protestants show a cross without a body to show the triumph of Christ. If I had a say, there would be no suffering.

    Adam did not exist. Today I read the Gospel of John again. The NIV translation has clear statements that Christ existed before the wrold was created. Indeed, Christ was the agent of creation. The NWT probably has some fraudulent translation. If a significant portion of an early Church taught that Christ existed before creation, I doubt that Christ had much to do with Adam. I ponder. Unlike the WT, I see no answers.

  • sunny23
    sunny23

    No Perry its not just about death in general. The process leading to the death is what is in question here in specific torture and agony and if thats necessary. Putting a dog to sleep and then stopping its heart can not be equated to slowly using a steak knife over many hours to saw at, stab and bleed the conscious dog out, got it? Adam had it easy compared to Jesus, and Jesus would have had it easy if he was born in the US in 2014, in fact he would have had to kill himself or God would have to "put it in someones heart" to kill jesus but I doubt it would be as torturous.

    God allows man the ability to sin, man sins, God makes man suffer and die for sin for several thousands of years, God then comes to earth at a time before cameras and internet in order to die a miserable torturous death so that He balances out some giant divine sin scale that he could not in all his power be able to balance otherwise..ooh and because he loves us sooo much. Stupid. If your wife came in to the bedroom and slit her wrists to show you how much she loved you or worse killed herself, would you buy it? This concept of invisible sin that only Jesus death could give attonement for is ridiculous the more you think about it.

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Does anyone notice that there is some sort of contract law at work in theories of Jesus' ransom for Adam's sins. How can any free will exist if suffering and death are the consequences of exercising it. God declares humans must obey. Adam sins. All humans suffer and die. Here, I get confused about the Witness' teaching about Jesus and the Christology. Jesus wipes out the original sin. It is as though God is a vengeful accountant paired with an ambulance chasing personal injury lawyer. The OT version is even worse.

  • frankiespeakin
    frankiespeakin

    And what's with Jesus when he is dying and saying to his dad: "Forgive them dad they don't know what they'r doing". I mean this don't sound anything at all like one superior being talking to another superior being. I mean Jehovah is supposed to be a god of love, why is he getting counciled by his son not to loose his temper, and jehovah is supposed to be all knowing, so why is Jesus clueing him in on how stupid the people are who put him to death?

    The story has got way to many holes in it to be even 1% true.

  • Perry
    Perry

    How can any free will exist if suffering and death are the consequences of exercising it.

    Some people do choose life with God in a subordinate / forgiven role and others choose the illusion of freedom apart from God. Free will is not hampered at all by the consequences of choice.

    Our prisons which are bursting at the seams, proves the faultiness of your reasoning.

    Again, God and freewill and the deferred adjudicaion sacrificial pardon is not the problem here. The problem here is the concept of sin, and the authority that God has in determining right and wrong. That is what causes so many to have heart burn.

  • designs
    designs

    No Adam and Eve, now what.

  • HowTheBibleWasCreated
    HowTheBibleWasCreated

    Read any passion narritive of the time it would be gory and brutal. Mel Gibson got one thing right... the suffering of condemned men. If you were and onlooker and were theorizing how a cosmic Jesus would die this is the best way you would think at the time. The Acension of Isaiah has the story of Jesus long before the gospels.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy

    Perry you don't get it, Jesus could of told his followers he was going to die for them and the world, then one night go to bed and be dead the next morning. This would be the same death as that of Adam and he past Satan's temptations. But know he has to go and die a slow torturous death. Its quoted in the Old Testament that god would punish children for their fathers sins down several generations and in the exodus story Moses is having to talk god out of killing the Israelites several times. They whole thing is crap or if it not I'll take worshipping Buddha of this guy...

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    American prisons are bursting at the seams b/c of racism. No other similar country has the prison population that the United States has. Genesis makes clear that the consequence of free will is suffering and death. To ignore these Biblical facts is to live in denial. I am a Christian yet I must repeatedly ask why the suffering and death. God seems limited. Also, why doesn't Jesus heal the entire world during his ministry? He only heals selected individuals. I don't have answers. Neither do you.

  • Viviane
    Viviane

    I suggest that what most have a problem with here is the concept of sin, rather than a loving God who takes the punishment for their sin so that death is abolished.

    As soon as death stops happening and God steps up to take credit in person, we can discuss this. Until then, you are simply defending an amoral monster by ignorant dismissing others to avoid having to deal with explaing your love of a death cult on a rational basis.

    Our prisons which are bursting at the seams, proves the faultiness of your reasoning.

    It proves Jesus doesn't do shit for anyone.

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