Could this be asked to him? Safely? Or worded different?
Also, it is interesting that, whilst most JWs criticize celebrating birthdays, they have no trouble celebrating wedding anniversaries which are simply "birthdays" of the wedding day.
How to wake up and reverse the trance???
by J-DUBBED 59 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
J-DUBBED
-
Giordano
If I was in your position and knowing what I know about the JW life I would suggest the following. Simply work on your father/Son......... relationship go out to lunch once a month. Ask him about his wife and their life together.......... endure the 800 pound gorilla in the room and accept his references to the JW world. But move the conversation back to whatever you guys used to talk about, be it sports, books, work, hobbies, movies, TV shows. Also be aware that any conversation can turn on a dime and become a witness by him and an anti witness by you. Avoid that, listen to what he has to say and just tell him kindly that while you believe in God (if you do) your not religiously inclined.
Be smart about his wife drop the hostility ask how they are doing as a married couple are they going on vacations, do they get out and see a movie, have a meal etc.
Normalize as much as you can. Don't engage his cult mindset don't disparage his wife. Always ask about your Grand daughter make sure he understands that you want to be able to get gifts for her apart from holidays and birthdays.
Try to emphasize family as much and as sincerely as you can.
Bottom line give the anger a rest. See what happens over the years.
-
ABibleStudent
Also, it is interesting that, whilst most JWs criticize celebrating birthdays, they have no trouble celebrating wedding anniversaries which are simply "birthdays" of the wedding day.
Hi J-DUBBED, As other members have expressed, focus on improving your relationship with your son and his wife first. May be in a couple of years, you could convince your son and his wife to allow you and your wife to give your grand-daughter a present on the day before or after her birthday, or some other specifically agreed to day. There is no hurry. The WTBTS's Armageddon isn't going to happen.
If you want to plant a seed of doubt in your son using birthdays, I would say something like the following when your son's authentic persona is more dominate than his cult persona (i.e., a couple of months before or after assemblies/conventions and may be on a two week vacation from a WTBTS meeting):
Son, your mother and I would like to give our grand-daughter presents on her special day to make her feel special. We understand that as a JW you no longer believe that your daughter should celebrate birthdays by giving her presents. Where in the Bible is it written that birthdays should not be celebrated?
[Wait for your son's response.]
Since only bad things happened to two individuals on a Pharaoh's or King's birthday (i.e., Ge 40:20, Mt 14:6, and Mk 6:21) in the Bible, why does the Watchtower teach JWs that God does not want JWs to celebrate their birthdays? Are men adding to God's teachings?
[Wait for your son's response]
Wasn't Jesus Christ's birth celebrated by angels (Luke 2)? Why do Jews celebrate birthdays, and bar mitzvahs and bat barmizhs?
[Wait for your son's response]
What does the bible say in Deu 4:1-2 and Mt 15:1-10 about adding to or subtracting from God's commandments? Quickly and subtly change subjects.
Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,
Robert
P.S. - Learn to use https://www.biblegateway.com/ to search different bibles for specific keywords/phrases. I prefer the NIV Bible.
-
DesirousOfChange
The biggie is he figures we should all get together (with his wife) and have supper or a coffee. We want nothing to do with his wife, she was the start of all the problem.
JDUB, you don't even have a glimmer of hope until you get this all figured out, but I suspect you will f*** it all up before then.
How the hell do you think you get to exclude his wife? This is the person who is getting his rocks off and is the mother of his child (and unless she's an old tyme JW, she is blowing his skin flute) and you think you are going to alienate him from her??? Not a chance. If that's you're way of working on this, then you better just sit back and wait til he calls you about his pending divorce.
You had best STFU and quit being controversial and spend weeks or months reading about cults (Steve Hassan) and reading this board to get an education.
It's been said: There ain't no free lunch. Well, there ain't no quick fix, either.
Doc
PS Never argue doctrine.
-
J-DUBBED
Yeah, thanks................Doc. You're a big influence. I'll keep that in mind.
Unlike many that have been able to help me with this life changing experience.....
Maybe you should STFU if you've got nothing contribute to my problem. I guess that's what happens when you're latched onto by a J-Dub Wifey........You may have a bigger problem than me.
It can't get much worse. It's like he's been dead for four years.
JDUB, you don't even have a glimmer of hope until you get this all figured out, but I suspect you will f*** it all up before then.
You had best STFU and quit being controversial
-
LisaRose
Well, I think DOC has a point, although he might have stated it more tactfully. If you want to have a chance of enlightening your son you will not accomplish it by alienating his wife, that will just cause to then to refuse to talk to you. You also will not win by attacking his chosen religion. Part of the cult mind control is a warning that Satan will use their non JW family to test them. When that inevitably happens, it just confirms to them that the JWs are right.
The only chance you have is to feign interest, then raise questions that they cannot easily answer, or that causes them to think. The religion uses third grade logic and questionable reasoning, it doesn't hold up under scrutiny. You must educate yourself about how mind control works. You could say a friend told you the Watchtower has predicted the end several times, for example. He has probably not been told this. Of course, they have an answer for everything, but you might be able to plant a seed of doubt.
-
J-DUBBED
then raise questions that they cannot easily answer, or that causes them to think.
I can agree to that..............But what are some of the "Simple" questions? I'm not good at quoting Bible scriptures back and forth.
-
J-DUBBED
This is the person who is getting his rocks off and is the mother of his child (and unless she's an old tyme JW, she is blowing his skin flute) and you think you are going to alienate him from her???
That's one thing I believe for sure is he was pulled to her by the "Cult Crap" and not lust. This one is not that great looking. He had numerous skin-flute blowers that were like models........and had brains and personalities. I believe if he wakes up from the "Cult Crap" he will open his eyes in the bedroom and .......RUN. If this Cult can steer you from your born and raised life, family and friends (you had all your life), then they sure can blind side anything in your vision.
I also believe I will get the right advice from a complete "Ex J-Dub". Someone that's been through it but now completely out. Not someone that's still part of the J-Dub Club. I think their opinions are just a bit of a conflict of interest.
-
J-DUBBED
Why would anyone want to bring division in families, make hate speeches, scare people to death, etc? -
KiddingMe
J-DUBBED,
There's a lot of great advice on this thread.
i just want to emphasize the importance in focussing on rebuilding the relationship with your son and his family outside of the religion. If you want to be successful, it must be unconditional (accepting and respecting his wife). I know this is not easy when they allow the religion to dictate their relationship with you.
Be a source of relief for your son. Try to build trust. This way, overtime, he may have you and your wife to confide in when things are not going well with the religion and/or his wife.
At the same time, start planting seeds (without directly criticizing) like someone else mentioned above. Bring up a question, say someone else asked you or maybe in a matter of fact way (give time to think, but don't expect an answer). Don't argue the answer, the goal is to help them think for themself. This also enables him to think about it with forcing him to defend the religion to you.
I was raised catholic. My mother was confrontational and critical of JWs from the beginning. This pushed me further into the religion. I did the same as your boy, referred to scriptures to explain everything. I dearly hoped my mom would convert but isolated from her because I felt her as a threat. I thought I was doing the right thing for my family It took me 20 years to open my eyes.
I hope your son comes out sooner. If so, he will really need you guys support. Don't come off a threat, be a source of comfort. Continue to work on your relationship now. It will not be easy for him to just walk away, so he will need your support.
If you haven't started yet, read the books mentioned. Keep posting and asking questions.