by Coded Logic 116 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
I also suggested on the last page that there might be more options we can't conceive of yet: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/287553/2/Creationist-Should-Dismiss-Genesis-Quickly#5137293
This is a thread about Genesis (at leat initially). so how about what the Bible says as an option? Thats God did not "come into being" "from nothing" but instead has always existed?
"Thy throne is established of old: though art from everlasting." Psalm 93:2
hooberus: genesis 3:8 "-- god walking in the gardenin the breezy part of the day-" ?
genesis is reducing a possible eternal creator into the incrnation of a local idol god, no more.
Genesis can not be taken seriously.
My whole point is that, given the current amount of unknowns that we are all looking at, the relative likelihood of a creator vs. a self-making universe cannot be appraised. Also, lose the condescending attitude.
Apognophos
Then you have missed the point entirely, the point is that the natural universe is the same for both the theist and the atheist. The only difference is that the theist adds a creator.
I take it then that you admit your understanding of the word complexity is at odds with how the rest of the English speaking world uses it? If you choose not to admit it then I shall continue to make fun of you.
Prologos,
Your post is meaningless derp. There is no pre, no outside, I have no idea why you think black holes are important, and there isn't a place outside of time.
Hooberus,
I quite agree there is exactly zero empirical evidence for your god having any parts at all!
Caedes, I agree, and did not say there is a place OUTSIDE time, to the contrary: There was time before there was a place, like space.
I wish too, that black holes did not exist, but in the context of not moving through time, and having a singularity, the reversal from expansion to contraction, they are useful references. Punctures in spacetime, left behind, as the universe expands and moves out through the 4 st dimension, time. and The laws of nature, as we know them, do not apply, break down, in black hole-conditions, an analogy to the beginning. ab
Glad we dismissed Genesis quickly.
Prologos,
Black holes are 'just' very dense dead stars that cause very extreme curvature of space-time, I'm unclear how you think they pertain to this conversation since they are part of the natural universe.
To point to the complexity of universe as indisputable evidence of an intelligent creator, only to turn around and then claim that this intelligent creator is himself uncreated is oxymoronic to the highest degree. Appealing to the notion of there being an infinitely powerful, infintely wise, uncreated, eternally pre-existing person to explain the origin of our complex universe, is therefore comparable to a foolish man who borrows a million dollars to pay off a hundred dollar debt. In his imagination he is content that he has resolved the hundred dollar debt, but he is too foolish to see the reality that he has actually created a much higher debt to pay off. For the explanative debt incurred to account for the existence of our universe is far less than the explanative debt incurred to account for the existence of the God that theists use to "pay off" the explanative debt for the universe's existence.
Caedes: I mourn for your reading comprehension. I'm done repeating myself.
Island man,
Precisely the point.
Apognophos,
Coming from someone who doesn't understand the word complexity or how to google basic concepts I will take that as a compliment.
Caedes, I agree, and did not say there is a place OUTSIDE time, to the contrary: There was time before there was a place, like space.
Time and space are the same thing.
I wish too, that black holes did not exist
If they didn't, you wouldn't. You're wishing for your own non-existence.
Caedes, what is at the fringes of the natural universe gives us indications what is outside of it. The Background radiation, (really younger than the big bang), The movement, radiation that signals that all that matter has disappeared, out of the universe into a black hole, leaving only it's effects. time stands still in these conditions, and you can not be part of the universe if you do not paricipate in its movement through time. Remember that we live in a fabric of spacetime that is moving, expanding, and black hole matter has left us.
I know Black holes have nothing to do with the genesis account, but they are part of the ongoing saga of the universe's development, points where time stands still again, because it was so there so dense, so energetic, fast again.
Genesis is much more inteesting than the book.
