Ongoing frustration with wife

by Flipping El 42 Replies latest jw experiences

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  Theredeemer

  I've been in your shoes twice flippin and one ended up in divorce and the other we are both out and enjoying life.

  The first, love was lost between us. In fact, I never had the courage to tell her how I felt about the "truth". We seperated for other reasons but if I had told her then she would have blamed the divorce on that and not on the issues between US.

  With my wife (current), I was confident that she loved me and that we could work through my feeling about the religion. Mind you I was a little scared but I loved her and felt it was fair for both of us that she knew. I told her exactly what I felt and that I would not be there in heart or mind but I would physically accompany her when I felt like it. I also promised that I would not stop her from going. At first there were some minor arguments but I tried my hardest to not overwhelm her. I would attend every now and then and she would not give me a hard time when I wouldnt go.

  Eventually she, out of her own, came to the same conclusion as me: its BS. It wasnt my love or patience that paid off, it was hers. She loved me more than any org and was patient enough to work whatever disagreement out with me.

  If me telling her would have ended this marriage then would it have lasted if some other big disagreement or problem came our way?

  Ive learned many things being married twice at such a young age, sometimes two people just shouldnt have gotten married. NO one gets married and thinks "well we are ending up divorced one day". Time eventually proves if you are compatible and if your love can endure all the problems that lay ahead.
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  Flipping El

  @Londo111 - definitely try to be careful! I've read about treading carefully, especially after reading Steve Hassan's books. After 1.5 years-ish of slowly bringing things up, it's kind of killing me inside. It's gotten to be unbearably stressful in the last couple weeks. I think with the harassing me with "what I think about things at the hall" in the last month, that was my mistake. I brought up 3 issues all at once. She just kept asking for more.
• 

  Crazyguy

  Maybe bring up the pedophile issues can defuse her blatant loyalty. I mentioned them to my wife in a text and she responded that I must be happy but I responded that no I was brokenhearted that the religion I thought was the true religion of god would be responsible in this and even mentioned how they have dfd families for not keeping quiet about an abuse. Her attitude changed and she became more her true self for awhile. I think we have not not act like what they think an apostate would act like.

  And on another note instead of attacking the religion with my oldest boy I'm showing him all the problems with the bible a little at a time and I think this is working. They have no defence for this and don't even see this kind of reasoning coming so they don't have a guard up.
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  Londo111

  I love Steve Hassan’s books. He thoroughly describes cult dynamics and undue influence for the everyday person. Whatismore, his background helps...he knows what it was like.

  However, sometimes I wonder if his solutions are more geared toward individuals who are in the process of being indoctrinated, or are recently indoctrinated, or are on the verge of awakening or are awake and need exit counseling. The scenario his techniques seem to work best for is one where most of the person’s family and friends are on the outside. The individual in the cult then has a support system to fall back upon when they leave. That support system in fact can be mobilized to extract that person.

  I do wonder about the effectiveness of the same technique for born-ins. I’m sure they are effective to a degree, but when a person is a second or third generation indoctrinated cult member, it is exponentially more difficult to extract them. I’m not sure there is a silver bullet solution.
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  disposable hero of hypocrisy

  Flippin eck El. I WISH my wife would ask me what I'm thinking about or how I feel about the 'troof'. I'm a similar length of time into the same process but SHE JUST WON'T ASK! If I bring it up myself I know I'll be accused of forcing an issue or provoking an argument but she MUST want to know what's going on in this thick skull of mine.

  Best of luck matey..
• 

  OneEyedJoe

  If me telling her would have ended this marriage then would it have lasted if some other big disagreement or problem came our way?

  I think about this a lot. I think part of the problem, though, is that objection to the cult isn't seen as just any old disagreement or problem. The cult is the 3rd strand of the 3-fold cord of your marriage, and they're indoctrinated to believe that if that goes away the marriage is doomed and it becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy.

  Flipping El - I don't have a lot of sage advice for you, since I'm not in any better of a situation, but I would suggest that you do at least have one advantage - you talk about it. My wife knows there's something wrong, and I've made some statements here and there about things that I object to, but she doesn't ask me anything about it. I think you may be closer than you think to reaching her if she at least is asking you what's up. One suggestion that I'd give would be to get some sort of commitment out of her prior to discussing it further. When she asks you what's wrong, ask her "if we talk about it, will you promise that you'll try to see it from my point of view without judging or making assumptions?" or maybe ask that she make an effort not to be upset that you've expressed an honest feeling.

  In some ways I envy you that you talk about it at all. Because I always knew there was something wrong with JWism (and religion in general) I never really wanted to talk about it at all - it was too uncomfortable because of my many doubts. Now we're at a point where we just don't talk about it and the only JW activity we do together is sit at the kingdom hall. There's so much unspoken tension that I don't even know where to begin in addressing it. If i could get her to ask me what's wrong I feel like there'd at least be some relief. What's more, I know she's constructing her own little story about why I'm doing what I am and this imaginary story is going to do nothing but cast me in a bad light.

  Anyways, please keep us updated. Hearing stories like yours is about the only source of hope that I have. Even if you don't make progress or hit a snag, it helps just to know other people are going through the same problems. Thanks for sharing.

  Edited to add -

  Londo - I've often thought the very same thing about Hassan's methods. When you've been born-in and married for 10 years, even asking a question that betrays some doubt is immediately viewed with suspicion. Since questions are the main way he says to get someone thinking, I just don't know what to do...
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  Finkelstein

  Ask your wife is she really likes absorbing all the pretentious sugar coated commercialized lies the WTS. puts out to sell

  and promote its literature ?

  Is that to her being a truthfully dedicated Christain, in doing so is that even following in line what Christ expects of his followers ?
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  Flipping El

  @Theredeemer - thanks for sharing your personal experience. I definitely will tell my wife that I will respect her decision to stay in and won't stop her. She is a smart girl, so the hope is she'll see that I'm not evil once fully out (just gotta stop the halfway mtg attendance and token 1hr service/mo) and realize that it is BS.

  @Crazyguy - that might be the last play in my book and say it before telling her I will not go to meetings any longer. It is something that both of us in the past have really been upset about the Catholic church. With the Candace Conti case and the more recent one (along with the news articles stating there's 20+ additional cases) it is enough to be upset about. I told an old friend that I was upset about the child abuse cases and he said, "so? what does that have to do with anything?" I like to keep up friendships but that one died on the spot when he launched into a tirade that "even if the work was banned because of all these cases, I would proudly continue on... blah blah blah". If my wife took a hard line, I'd be surprised, and disgusted.

  @Londo - that's just it! When I read through Steve Hassan's books, I kept thinking, "hmmm, that's close but won't work". When you lose ALL your family and friends, it's too much! That's why all the 20 - 40 year old couples that have half a brain don't really do everything by the book. They are all, "well, you gotta live a little" ie. go to bars, parties, drink too much, flirt, listen to explicit music, get tattoos & *still* take selfies in front of public witnessing carts. My favorite is when they "like" explicit booty pics on Instagram in between #picturesfromservice hashtag pics... they don't know that their history is public! - I used to think people like this were weak and wouldn't last in the org... now I think, "how else are they going to cope?" and now I know it's the only way to last in the org... otherwise, you're insane!

  My wife is a 4th gen witness. Had pioneered out of school and after we got married. Anointed, hard-ass, great-grandmother & grandfather who abandoned their kids to serve as COs (really! I kid you not!) and extended family at the highest levels of NY Bethel (meeting them at Bethel while in was a tad intimidating hahahaha) with invites to the Annual Meeting to the fam and special events / visits, etc. How do you escape the reality that your family has built for you? Everyone has sacrificed *everything* for the organization, so you do too! After all it's GOD'S organization! No silver bullet for that indeed!
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  LisaRose

  I think it would be best if you were honest with her. This seems like a time bomb that is sure to go off sooner or later, so why prolong it? Perhaps you should see a professional counselor to figure out how to approach it. I don't know what's going on with her, she seems very passive aggressive. Perhaps she wants out of the religion too or perhaps she wants out of the marriage and is afraid to say, it's impossible for any of us to know, but it's time to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

  I think you need to figure out what you want. If you leave the religion she may leave you, so which is more important too you, saving the marriage or saving you personal integrity by not practicing a religion you don't believe in?
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  NAVYTOWN

  This serves as a definite warning to young people looking for a mate: NEVER get involved in any way with a JW. They will always value the cult more than they value you and the relationship/marriage. JWs are experts at 'crazy-making' behavior. So the best bet is to stay FAR AWAY from any JW. They really are nuts!!!