Does anyone remember a district overseer Joe Slaiman?

by stuckinarut2 72 Replies latest jw friends

  • Giordano
    Giordano

    That was my take Island Man. In Joe's case there was nothing to gain in going after him. This wasn't on a congregational level where you want to keep control of the Congo. Being well liked and respected in his District there was nothing to gain by making a fuss. We also see the Society allowing a wide range of conduct on the part of famous JW's.

    The WTBTS always does what is in it's own best interest. The Ray Franz issue was different because they had a need to discredit him.  They knew he knew how stuff happened like changes in policies and doctrines at the very top level.

  • steve2
    steve2

    I have nothing but respect for an individual who has the courage to identify themselves by name and location and is able to calmly  set the record straight and express their views with composure and without ill will towards any.

    Thanks again Joe - and would be nice to hear from you again when you can.

  • Magnum
    Magnum

    Island Man, I believe your general principle is right. It has been said on this site before that if one goes to the elders and says he has doubts about Jah and the Bible, he will get help, hugs, and kisses, but if he goes and says he has doubts about the FDS (or GB) or the org, it will be a different story.

    So the bottom line is: Question the Sovereign, no problem. Question the organization, big problem.

  • Crazyguy
    Crazyguy
    I would think a guy like me with a family still in would be asked by the elders if I believed or not in the Bible.  Once it's was established that I was an atheist,  they would still announce at the KH that I was no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I can not see anyway around it?
  • Max Divergent
    Max Divergent
    you have the audacity to ask us to bury the hatchet, endure the pain and suffering and agony and as you say...'move on and enjoy what is left of it in contentment and happiness'.

    Maybe in a quiet moment JW GoneBad might reflect on the gap between what Joe wrote and the response.

    Joe reflected positively on what life has for us and asked no one to bury or endure anything, including WTS induced pain, suffering or agony.  

    Moving on in contentment and happiness in no way precludes one from contributing to the recovery of others, however any individual might go about doing that. 

    In fact, I'd be as bold as to suggest that someone who has moved on into contentment and happiness might be a more effective advocate for any cause that one still mired in bitterness and hate. 


  • Max Divergent
    Max Divergent
    I would think a guy like me with a family still in would be asked by the elders if I believed or not in the Bible

    In my time as a JW, and I don't think anything has changed, the question asked (as best I remember from 1998) was something like whether one accepts that the Faithful and Discreet Slave had something or other to do the the Society and the congregation and God. 

    I responded that if my answer was 'yes' then I was a heretic since I wasn't participating in the congregation and if my answer was 'no' then I might be an apostate. And since I was neither of those things, I said, (a lie - I was both) I didn't know the answer to the question (also a lie - I knew the answer). 

    One seemed amused (he'd been a friend for years and was as liberal as a JW elder gets), the other (hard core) got a bit annoyed and (correctly) said I was smoke screening. I didn't answer and that was about the end of the conversation.

    That's the reality. If you're not accused of a 'gross sin' (and non-belief is not a gross sin) and don't criticize or question the organisation and you don't hang around the KH like a bad smell, you shouldn't get DF/DA.

    But I'd guess most departing JWs do one of those things. 


  • Max Divergent
    Max Divergent

    I found an old post of mine on the same topic, written much closer to the time with more details and, no doubt, more accurate than my memory is now of the conversation. Maybe they asked multiple similar questions.

    The point, though, is about whether the focus at the time of departure from the Witnesses is on belief in God and the bible, or acceptance of the organisation.

    For context, I was a third generation JW, a well-liked goody-two-shoes, self-righteous prick and good public speaker who had recently stepped down as an uber-MS and stopped going to meetings. The DO had recently left (that was Joe) and two COs had recently been DF'd while on our circuit.

    For what it's worth, this is a lightly edited excerpt from 13 years ago:

    The question they asked me was something like: 'In your opinion, do the Witnesses present the truth, but that truth isn't for you; or, do you believe the Witnesses do not present the truth'? I replied that I'd given that some thought and checked the dictionary definition for heresy and that seemed to describe the first condition they described. I'd also checked the dictionary definition for apostasy, and that seemed to describe the second condition.


    I said that I didn't think that either condition described my position, but that I was acutely aware that my current thoughts were probably wrong and that I couldn't and wouldn't presume to trouble others with it. 'At the end of the day, I'm not sure where I'm at in regard those very serious positions you describe, but I remain absolutely dedicated to truth and goodness. I just don't know about those sorts of really big questions at the moment' (and what's wrong with any of that from the JW point of view?).

    I wasn't subject of any judicial process at all. The point is that you can leave without being DF/DA, if you no do not profess a position against the Society. Private non-belief or un-certainty are fine. I used to assist in the shepherding of 'inactive ones' (ie: those who'd left on their own terms and weren't DF/DA), some I had met on the doors and had no idea had been JWs.

    The attitude of the elders seemed fourfold:

    1) calling was a duty,

    2) it was just a matter of being nice and letting them know they could come back,

    3) it didn't matter what sins they were committing (de facto relationships, smoking etc), and

    4) it was easy field service hours, often complete with tea and cake, so long as they weren't identifying as JWs.

  • suavojr
    suavojr
    Another example of the whacky JW world.
  • karter
    karter

    Joe,Do pop in from time to time it's was great to hear from you.

    You were the only DO to introduce your wife on stage when you came to the Devonport assembly hall.

    All the very best for whatever your doing now.

    Karter.

  • Mattieu
    Mattieu

    Haven't posted in 3 years, but this thread got me out of the woods :)

    Joe was an amazing person/CO when I met him. The day I was baptised at the Melton ASSenbly hall, he put his arm around me and walked with me to the backstage and had the most normal chat. Whenever he & his wife used to come to my Mums house in Preston (every visit), it was like having a family member over, not some pompous CO who wanted to be treated like royalty. My fav memory is of Joe falling asleep one day after lunch in front of the TV before the afternoon group rocked up. Looking back it was probably because he was up to 1AM that same morning dealing with all the crap that was Preston cong (how it never got disbanded is still beyond belief).

    Its funny, I heard all the same rumours posted here about him and his wife, strange how the rumours about him were being spread by an ex bethelite elder with strong connections in Ingleburn. The same person who gives talks at every CA/DA in Melbourne still, the same person who's brother in law is a current c/o..... Nice smear campaign William....

    Joe was the first person I wanted to talk to as I began my fade, wanting to know his thought process and what helped him. Have always wondered these past 5 years or so..... Fortunately I had this site and JW facts to help me (thx Simon & Paul) and others like Randy and Blondie, Sadly a few others who I enjoyed reading in the time I lurked before joining (and since) have passed on...

    I hope Joes story and his message to move on and enjoy life for what its worth gets through to as many lurkers/faders as possible.... For what its worth, I've spent the last 2 years working full time and gong to University to get a degree, a real education. Something that in 1969 (and today) the wbts/jw.org told my Mum was worthless..... Stay classy San Diego....

    Cheers, Mattieu :)

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