Legal Question: How Strong is Barbara's Case?

by Room 215 57 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  hillary_step

  Dutchie,

  I know that you are involved in the legal world, so I will bow to your greater knowledge in this field.

  I think that one of the most easily 'provable' charges that could be legally leveled against the WTS, is on the grounds of mental cruelty for having been disfellowshipped. This has been tested in the Courts a number of times in different countries around the world. The WTS has won each case that it fought on these grounds..

  They successfully defended themselves on the 'You knew what to expect when you joined' strategy, and it worked. Their remodeling of the Baptism slogans solidified their legal position even further. Fighting individual cases will be fraught with difficulty, the vast majority of cases being lost before the matter gets anywhere near the Courts due to the accusatory parties being unable to pay the legal bills. People have lost houses, businesses and in many cases their health in the process.

  What is needed is ten Barbara Andersons in a class action against the WTS, supported financially by persons who are willing to go to the wire over the case. This would catch the news, guarantee a strong legal team, and most certainly imho, give the WTS a run for its money.

  Another recourse would be to unearth a paper trail that leads directly to the GB and implicates them in a deliberate criminal act, these exist and it may be a long time coming, but it also may not!

  Best regards - HS
• 

  og

  Also, Metatron is perfectly right that the legal department can be swamped - or were some of you thinking that they God's Holy Spirit(tm) supporting them?

  And they can't be particularly good at what they do - they're dumb enough to remain JWs, for one thing.
• 

  metatron

  I also must question the view that they have plenty of lawyers who can volunteer to defend

  them. Why have they needed to train in house lawyers - and other professionals - unless

  they don't have competent volunteers? Why did they co-ordinate df'ings just before Dateline

  and create a PR disaster? - as well as provide evidence that congregations are dominated

  by the Society and not independent? I've worked with media people for over twenty years

  and I can tell you that their handling of Dateline was incompetent - and they had plenty

  of time to prepare! In addition, this may be a foreign issue but isn't there evidence that

  they legally mishandled the whole tax issue in France?

  metatron
• 

  og

  http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/0604-01.htm

  The above is a link to an excellent article describing the incremental approach to suing Big Tobacco that eventually led to HUGE judgements, and how that logic is now being made to apply to fast food companies, successfully in some cases.

  It certainly seems to me that the Society is a softer target than McDonald's.

  Question: can a religious body be forced to turn over internal memos, files, etc.? Was the Catholic Church faced with this kind of request, and how'd they do if so?
• 

  dungbeetle

  Up untill recently, Watchtower could disfellowship anyone they want..there was always someone willing to fill their shoes. People with low self-esteem, psychologically damaged, emotionally dependant were a dime a dozen .

  Not so anymore .

  Up untill recently, lawyers were willing to lie and co-conspire using 'Theocratic War Strategy' lying right to judges faces, including Canada. These lawyers were willing to risk losing their license and going to jail for blackmail, abuse of the legal system, and criminal co-conspiracy.

  Not necessarily so anymore .
• 

  Dutchie

  Hi Hillary, you're made some excellent points. "Mental cruelty". "psychological damage" they are part and parcel of the same cause of action. I believe that if she can prove (and I believe she can) that the watchtower society set out to intentionally harm her I believe that she can recover damages..

  By the way, I am brand new to the legal world. Sometimes people with good common sense are just as effective as any lawyer I've ever known

  A class action is of course one possibility, but it is cumbersome and unless you are independently wealthy or find a lawyer who can cover expenses for several years you're going to have a problem because court costs can be astromonical.
• 

  one

  What about a court case outside the USA, France?

  Yes, WT lawyers can not be too smart,

  Being a jw with all the info available about the org. = __________(you fill the blank)

  I have seen DO and above, among the best wt minds, doing very stupid things in legal matters.

  WT says apostates dont get anywhere, they can not get organized.etc.

  $ could be a good incentive to get orgnized and get even.

  filing a complaint in court is very easy. You can represent yourself easily

  www.nolo.com

  Every thing is routine

  A great deal of litigation can be done in writting, you dont have to be a showman

  Lawyers dont like what i am saying here

  New York County Lawyers' Ass'n v. Dacey

  , 283 N.Y.S.2d 984 (App.Div.), rev'd on the dissenting opinion, 287 N.Y.S.2d 422.

  hint1,

  subcribe to PACER.

  hint2

  Read a good case from a-z

  Lawyers are not genius, they just know the rules or are expected to know the rules..
• 

  LoneWolf

  While I am certainly NOT an expert in law, there are a few things I'd like to comment on.

  I must agree with those who say that the climate is changing. If the Organization is really so invulnerable, then why are they going to all of the trouble of reorganizing their corporations, etc., so as to make it harder to sue them? They are telling us something here, and I feel that we should listen closely and find out why they are feeling so vulnerable. What do they know that we don't? Find out and we will have an Achilles' heel that can be exploited.

  Secondly, I agree with Farkel. If we look at them and give up in hopelessness due to their imposing front, then we've given them the victory by default. Anything can be conquered. Sometimes though, it takes practice and repetition to get it right. There is no "silver bullet". Each case, whether won or not, is a lesson for us in this "course" that we are taking.

  Third: Dutchie, I know that what you are saying has merits. Speaking personally though, I feel uncomfortable in pursuing the course you suggest. Barbara is a strong woman and her public image should continue to reflect that. I sense that she will lose more than she gains by crying and playing the victim card. Rather, she should stand up in moral outrage, publically call them a pack of damned liars, and demand they show proof of their allegations or be sued. Play the moral high ground --- and the media ---for all it is worth. Win or lose, they lose.

  Finally, I've said from square one that individuals will not be given the proper respect and will be waved off as inconsequential. Class action is what will do the job. In the meantime, attrition, attrition, attrition! Make them feel they are fighting the wind.

  Think of it this way: If Alvin Hansen of Ashland, Oregon came within a gnat's eyebrow of winning $65,000,000 from them AS AN INDIVIDUAL, how much better would our chances be as a group?

  Personally, I hope that Barbara throws open her suit to all of us. I want $1 million a year myself for the 15 years I've been DFed on false charges. If 500 of us sign up for such a suit and demand a couple of billion dollars in compensation, that's going to make some real waves.

  Just for the fun of it, one of the things I'd like to sue them for is malpractice. Let's see if we could bring this over from the practice of medicine to the practice of religion. I'd like to see them scramble to protect their butts from some things that they haven't faced before.

  LoneWolf

  Edited by - LoneWolf on 14 June 2002 3:8:17