Sometimes I Am Ashamed (page 7)

Dutchie

I can agree with some of the things you said. And I agree that everything is relative. I am not disputing that. I am just saying that for those of us who fall in the middle that a little discretion be exercised. We are not at war. We can respect each other's opinion and try to come to some understanding. I think that's fair don't you?

Dutchie

I don't understand what you are trying to say, Imbue. I believe in the freedom of speech. I always have and I haven't changed my mind. But thanks for pointing that out. This issue is not about the freedom of speech.

DakotaRed

Valis, I don't know what belief Schulz, John Banner, adhered to. I too loved that show, especially when we got some TV in Vietnam and they showed it. I still watch the old reruns on TVLand and still enjoy them as much as I ever did.

How could anybody not like Sgt. Schulz?

Dutchie

You're right, Dakota. I love Sargeant Schultz!

DakotaRed

Valis, I see a difference on abuse being posted and sexually explicit material being posted. Of course, some descretion would need to be shown there too. What would be considered bad taste then would matter a great deal upon the poster and if the host asked for it not to be shown, then of course, we should comply.

Just for the record, I could post stories of the abuse I suffered as a child from nonJW parents that has made others weep and cry when I emailed them out. I refrain from that as it would serve no real purpose other than to show that abuse happens all over the religious spectrum. I am now 53 and survived it, both my parents are dead and I am still here and stopped the cycle of abuse with me. My daughters know of my childhood and are very thankful that they never saw any abuse growing up.

To me, explicit material is designed to arouse and of course, I too get aroused when viewing a female naked or scantily clad. Posting about the abuse within the JW Organization is done to inform, but would you really want naked picture of children shown to show all their bruises? I wouldn't.

But, like I said, since Simon is our gracious host and has asked us to tone it down, I feel we should abide. That link I posted is filled with sexually explicit material and takes new submissions all the time. No, I have never submitted nor do I pay for the hardcore section. But, as stated, I do enjoy seeing females. Sometimes, I actually remember what sex was like. Just joking, although I am currently celibate.

None of it has ever offended me, but like I said, I feel we should abide by the requests of our host.

Edited by - DakotaRed on 15 June 2002 22:42:28

Naeblis

It's pretty simple Dutchie. Some people may feel that talking about witches on an ex-jw board is "too far" Dutchie, let me ask you a question, since you seem to be concerned about what questioning witnesses may think. What do you think would be more shocking and upsetting to a witness? A thread with some playful shots of peoples boobs, or a thread discussing the merits of witchcraft?? A thread with a bunch of people laughing over risque pictures of butts? Or a thread claiming the bible has no problem with witches at all???

Is it "free speech" when it's about something you support and too far when it's about a subject that makes YOU uncomfortable???

Last I checked witchcraft was punishable by death in the bible, asses weren't. Where do you stand Dutchie?

Edited by - Naeblis on 15 June 2002 22:40:27

larc

Valis, It seems to me that the first objection to the post found to be offensive to Dutchie had to do with her sense of morality was a very straightforward statement regarding her view of the harm that such a thread could do to those who visit us. You object of her view of morality and the similarity to certain strictures and our past in the Wt. Now, I have to ask you what are your moral boundries? I assume you have some. I doubt that would consider it acceptable if someone raped your woman. So, morality is an important issue, and there are moral issues, and moral boundaries. Now, what your boundries are, may differ from Dutchie's, but I think you should repect her boundries as much as she or I should repect yours. Question: did you ever violate your moral boundaries, and were the results of such a violation a good one? The older you get, the more you will discover the bad outcomes of violating your own sense of morality. Now, as several people have point out, this is Simon's house, and we are conversing in his cyber living room. If he wants us to tone it down, we should respect his wishes. I would do the same thing in your living room, and I hope you would do the same thing in mine. In my house, I would ask you not to show skin pictures or use obscenities if kids were around or my JW sister dropped into visit.

teejay

I do not believe in Biblical morals as such, rather I form my own opinion about what is moral and what isn't. I believe it's immoral the way my JW family have treated me. IMO their behavior, on many levels, is far worse than consenting adults having sex outside wedlock - (if there is no one being hurt by their actions).
As regards the forum, it's my personal preference to keep it reasonably clean. I've heard guys make jokes about blow jobs etc and those same ones spend hours writing brilliant posts about how deranged the WTS is. To me, the blow job quib undoes all their great efforts in the writing department. But then I think; are we responsible for people coming out of the Org? Why should we cater all our comments to lurkers who might finally GET something we say? Yes I do think it delays the progress of doubters waking up to the WTS, but I'm really tired of pandering to witnesses. I'd rather have this forum a fun place for everyone. I guess I feel that in the big picture, dirty talk, doesn't do that much harm. It's just talk. It's innocent for the most part. And that takes me back to things that are much, much, much more sinister than dirty talk. Tower behavior offends me FAR more than anything anyone here says.
Don't get me wrong. I'm kinda with you, but this is how I've come to view this problem. I've been on exjw internet sites since 1996 and this is where I'm at now on this issue. Btw I'm a very conservative person in myself. Only ever slept with one guy in my life. My husband of 30 yrs!
very much appreciate where you are coming from -- Marilyn

Sorry for re-quoting you Marilyn, but that was an excellent post... one of the best I've read in quite some time. Are you related to Waiting?

Dutchie

Well, I think its your terminology Naeblis. "Playful" pictures of boobs? It wasn't the boobs that got to me truthfully. Its when people started pulling down their pants and showing their asses or when they became completely naked. Those were the pictures that were rather shocking to me. However, as I said before all things are relative and if your perception that things were done playfully whom am I to dispute that? Its just that I did not find it so. That's my perception. Am I not entitled to that?

I don't think you can compare a discussion of witches and naked pictures. I don't know how to do that. Perhaps I am just not that smart but an intelligent study about the nature of witches seems to pose no problem for me. This is after all a discussion forum.

Naeblis

It certainly is a discussion forum. But if you look at the top its a forum about things related to witnesses correct? Where do Witches fall into that?? Besides, you may think your discussion about the bible condemned witchcraft is nice and scholarly, but to the average witness looking for answers, what do you think is more shocking? A boob? Or someone on the board talking about spells they are performing? I mean, we DO have to think of these poor souls do we not Dutchie? And again, since you didn't answer last time. Who forced you to go through 40 pages of pictures? Did the title not clue you in as to what was inside? Please, let's put our differences aside, we wouldn't want our arguing to stumble a meek hearted witness looking for answers.

Sometimes I Am Ashamed

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