by joe134cd 23 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
In the 60`s J.W.`s in their literature listed how many were disfd each year , in their yearbook , the reason was mainly for immorality , do they still list such things and for what reasons ? If my memory serves me correct it was something like 60 ,000 ? a year .
And if they don`t ,I wonder what could be their reason .
Just curious
smiddy
The following rhyme sums up the exit rate (leaving aside annual death rate estimates) - and seems a good rule of thumb:
The Flesh swallows many, Apathy maybe more.
Apostasy takes the least, perhap three or four.
Difficult to hazard a guess, those who leave for Apathy/burnout or whatever, how many of them eventually discover TTATT ?
Not as many as I would hope, I know, but those that do become "Apostates" in the mind of the JBorg.
I seem to remember the figures from a few years back being around 60,000 DF'd as Smiddy says, but my memory says they said around 40,000 of those for immorality, that leaves 20,000 Apostates.
Today's figures must be higher, simply because of more members.
I have no proof, but I think that the numbers leaving is increasing year on year, but as time goes on, fewer of those leave for Doctrinal reasons, most that have a good reason are leaving for mistreatment in some way.
All the problems in the WBT$ are silent. that's why they DF victims...to shut them up. Their biggest worry is all the bad press against the corporation. Bad press means less money for the gluttonous, paedophile lovers AKA Governing body(tm) and their suck ups.
That's why they are begging for money.
with the internet, there isn't much silence anymore.
I think demographics are an important factor.
The older ones will not research online, however these ones are reducing in number as they grow old, can't make meetings anymore, and eventually die off. 40% in my congregation of 100 publishers are in this age group and there are a dozen of these who no longer come regularly because of age and infirmity.
Middle aged ones sit squarely between years of meetings and dabbling with reading online. This group makes up the largest number in my congregation, probably 50% in their 30's - 50's. My observation is that they often have lots of questions about the organisation but are trapped in because they may have older parents in, or they have brought their children in. When the parents die and the children leave (either home or the WT), that will be an interesting time.
Younger ones (not including minors who have to attend with parents) are dropping like flies. They use the internet every day and are increasingly unafraid to research non-WT sites.
It's a vicious circle for the WT. As younger ones drop away, there's less incentive for the remaining younger ones to stay, seeing as it's an ageing group with whom they have little in common. The meetings are repetitive, boring and bullying, the demands on time and lifestyle are too high, and the teachings incomprehensible. Once the social aspect goes there's nothing left.
At the top end they are dying off, at the bottom end, despite the infant baptisms, young ones are just losing fear and interest. Those that remain do so for family reasons. If they don't leave now, they will likely do so when they reach middle age.
Of course, there are always those who have JW-ORG written through their brains like a stick of seaside rock and those who value their positions too much to quit because they have nothing else in life to be proud about. These will remain on board when it sinks, and still won't see the futility of it all.
Steve2 - Apathy is doing a fine job all by itself.
I guess that is somewhat open to interpretation. I don't think that argument goes over well for people wanting their loved ones out. Apathy does not necessarily lead to someone's leaving.
OTOH, there are a hash number of the apathetic class that do eventually leave, (I was apathetic for my last few years in). So apathy does have some precancerous properties from the WTS' perspective for sure.
Apathy also causes others to take notice and wake up.
Just don't expect someone who is apathetic to wake up and leave. More times than not, it does not happen that way, because these folks are often too comfortable as JWs.
d4g
I can only remember 2 or 3 people being DFd for apostasy when I was a JW , with quite a few more fading and being known or assumed to have apostate views. As times goes on with the increasing focus on money , a lot more flip flops and much more awareness due to the internet I'm sure it has increased but it will always be marginal compared to the numbers being DFd for immorality. I asked my cousin who is still a ( physically in , mentally out ) JW in good standing if he knew of many who had left recently for dissention & he said it is still quite rare ( and he has been a JW for over 50 years & knows a lot of JWs. ) He tells me it is the youth who are leaving in droves - even those from supposedly "spiritual" families.
Once you are an adult and heavily involved , it's not easy leaving a cult for dissenting views. Leaving "the truth" because you have discovered it is false will always require a huge mental effort , unique circumstances and great personal sacrifice ( shunning from family & friends etc ) and other broadly similar groups ( such as the Mormons and Scientologists ) also have very few members who leave in this way.
With out a doubt I think the majority are leaving or been forced to leave because of immorality.
Of course once you realize the religion is a false construct of delusional humans you also understand that concepts such as "immorality" are part of the contrived belief system.
Ultimately, whatever the reason a person leaves or is "kicked-out" it's because they do not share the groupthink delusion of the cult.
A cult has to demonize such individuals to maintain their fragile beliefs and keep control.
joe134cd - "How big of a problem is apostasy?"
Considering how increasingly shrill and freaked-out they've sounded recently, I'd say it's getting pretty big.
x
steve2 - "Apathy takes far more JWs down than apostasy ever could."
I suspect the WT views apathy as a form of apostasy.
