I'm with Gopher - definitely peer pressure
what has most influence on JW's?
by sleepy 19 Replies latest jw friends
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blondie
Definitely peer pressure (which is of course a form of fear).
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SYN
Various forms of fear, I'd say...that, and the dreaded DISHCLOTH!!!!!!
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OUTLAW
.......FEAR!!!....... ...OUTLAW
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Oroborus21
Howdy,
I don't think broad generalizations can be drawn. One person may be heavily influenced by peer pressure and another may not be influenced at all by the same pressure. With each person you are going to get a different response.
Like most things the answer is complicated and multi-faceted and defies distillation to just one thing.
Having said that, I think that in JW life and in non-JW life the largest influence upon us are our close associates and family members (we love and respect). This, hopefully, is often our parents, but too often not. Very often it is that one friend that we respect and admire that influences us the most.
For some their best friend may have been a "gung ho" Witness (or their family highly active, etc.) and this led them to seek to behave in the same way.
Likewise, if the Bible or Watchtower or talk from the platform said one thing but the person(s) closest to us were doing something different, it was these persons that probably had the bigger influence on our conduct and choices rather than that material.
In a broader sense this extends to a generalized peer pressure and also to the "examples" or experiences we witnessed and underwent.
Running in a tie or a close second for largest influence is going to be our "circumstances." I mean this in terms of familial life, economic situation, cultural background etc. For example:
Speaking for myself it was growing up very poor, including not having much or anything to eat at times, being hispanic and a Witness, being the last of 7 children, etc. etc.
It was these things that I believed greatly influenced me to excel in whatever I tried to do, to pursue higher education, also it perhaps, explains why although I would not describe myself as materialistic I greatly desire to avoid ever being in such a destitute situation again (starving-student-stage excluded), and further explains my ambitious nature and fiercely independent character, etc.
Having said all of that, while I acknowledge that we can be influenced by outside sources and that in the Nurture v. Nature Debate I give more weight and credence to the Nurture aspect, I strongly believe in personal responsibilty and have the tendency to wince at cries about how the outside world has influenced a person's decisions.
Respectfully I say to you and others, there comes a time when a person needs to stop whining about how the Watchtower, the organization, the friends, the elders, etc. etc. "influenced" me (for the negative I presume) and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY for your own choices and the decisions you have made in life.
And for those that would say that the choices or decisions made were not made with full knowledge or disclosure, I say "tough." We rarely have ALL of the info when we make decisions in life. We make decisions and we live with them, learn from them and make new decisions. That's life so stop blaming other "outside influences".
--Eduardo
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Gopher
Eduardo,
With all due respect, this thread wasn't about outside influences and their effect on us who have left the JW's... It was about OUR OPINIONS about what motivates JW's to do what they do. I think everyone on the thread, including you, showed an insight into the psychology of a JW member.
I don't see anybody on this thread blaming JW's for what has gone bad for them personally -- that's a different topic, and one worth discussing. But it's like comparing "apples" to this thread's "oranges" IMHO.
Not that you don't have a good point.
Edited by - Gopher on 19 June 2002 15:58:32
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DanTheMan
good point joeshmoe (I have an autistic brother who will just about kill you if you call him that)
People resemble the God they worship. The Jehovah concept continually promulgated by the WT is an unpleasable, legalistic monster. The leadership reflects these qualities in spades.
The GB are a bunch of relics from a different age and have spent decades living in an ivory tower where they have no meaningful contact with the outside world. The spirit of the borg reflects their backwards, misogynist attitudes.
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blacksheep
My theory based on observation is that the main motivator for JW's is they have to somehow PLEASE someone outside of themselves. They thrive on external approval; they have an underdeveloped (or even thrwarted) ability to be introspective, find inner peace and satisfaction, and general ability to determine right from wrong, good from bad, as well as shades of gray.
They say they're trying to "please Jehovah," but that's just a front for following the dictates of a men who claims to represent Jehovah. In reality, they are being told what to do, and their measure of worth comes from how well they follow the dictates of the WTS. A pioneer is revered, as is a bethelite, as is a DO/CO, etc. They both want to admire and BE admired for how well they follow the organization. They have a whole status structure. The meet frequently and put on a good "show" for their fellow believers. They demonsrate "good works" by going out in service, etc. It's all about appearances and how someone else evaluates you, esp those in "good standing" in the congregation.
That's why often JW's who leave deal with the emotional struggle to find some equilibriuum: there's no one there to "approve" you. In fact, the reverse is true. They are shunning you and overtly DISapproving you.
To me, the main internal motivator I see is the need for someone else's approval. Many of them feel they cannot "make it" or revered by "worldly" society at large, so they find a place where they CAN be approved. And it's pretty easy, as long as you follow the formula.
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Oroborus21
Blacksheep,
You raise a very good point about pleasing others. The culture of the organization is very higly sensitive to group approval or disapproval. Even the greatest organizational "punishment" of Disfellowshipping is in effect the extreme of this.
This is though true of any group, work or social culture, but although I don't have the experience with other religions but I wouldn't be surprised if in the organization this group conformity pressure is stronger than many other religions.
A JW raised in the org learns to discern all of the subtleties of this. It is interesting to observe how quickly the group can influence change when someone moves from one locale to another or with a new addition. When I moved from New Mexico where cowboy boots and bolo ties were acceptable meeting attire it didn't take me long especially after many comments from brothers (usually about how "nice" my bolos were) for me to figure out that a regular neck-choker was expected. However, my disuse of bolo ties came about less from group influence than from an increased fashion sense.
Of course it is easy to say we should not strive to please others and it is irksome when occasionally this sentiment is even presented from the platform either in reference to the Widow's Mite episode or in general not to be drawing comparisons to our brother when we all know that the reality is that conformity is required. We further know that even when we would prefer not to or claim not to care about other's opinions of us, it is a natural human tendency to care and we do.
--Eduardo
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DanTheMan
blacksheep, I enjoyed your observations.
I was pretty much a two-bit LOSER when I became acquainted with the JW's, with no direction in life and not a great personality, temperamental and self-centered.
The JW's were the easy way out. Get my hair cut, don a suit, attend 5 meetings a week, and voila! Instant friendships and approval. It was that approval and communal atmosphere that kept me in long after I started having serious doubts. So for years I kept my mind consumed with trivial matters, because any sort of heavy contemplation always pushed me towards un-Watchtowerian ideas.
The worst part of my leaving has been knowing what the talk amongst my former acquaintances probably is.
"He never developed deep roots"
"He never matured in the truth"
"He just lost his good sense"
"He was too sensitive, he never learned how to get along in Jehovah's organization."
blah blah blah