WholeWheat, thank you for your comments. I respect your decision to stay as a JW. However, I do not agree that the good far outweighs the bad. 'Good' and 'bad' should not be weighed by the percentage of what is written, but by the harm that is caused. It is the contention of many here and elsewhere that many JWs have suffered not only emotional damage but lost years of life due to belief in false promises and claims as well as personal opinions of a tiny few, all for the sake of being 'loyal' to the society. Even if you have not come to the conclusions many of us have, if you are a caring person you will not make light of the feelings of such XJWs (not that I'm suggesting you have, but please be aware.)
Does being called an 'apostate' upset you?
by wholewheat 109 Replies latest jw friends
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Farkel
wholewheat,
: Remember the brothers and sisters that have been in prisons for 30, 40 years in the past. They remained faithful to Jehovah, praying to Him daily, and yet never recieved any of the Society's publications.
Are you CRAZY?
They were in prisons for 30, 40 years because their Watchtower leaders told them God will kill them if they didn't do what they were told and go to prison because of Watchtower beliefs.
They wouldn't have to go to prison to day over alternative military service because the Watchtower CHANGED that policy.
: Did they worship the organisation? I think not!
Of course they did. If they would have not worshiped the organization and opened their own Bibles they would have discoverd that the Bible says NOTHING about alternative military service, and there is NO evidence that Cornelius had to give up being a military officer to become a Christian, either.
So they sacrificed thirty and forty years of their precious lives for a two-bit bullshit religion that claims to speak for God. That was my point and that is still my point, wholewheat.
Farkel
Edited by - Farkel on 30 June 2002 21:41:48
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wholewheat
Farkel,
Let me ask you this. We as witnesses have to make five meetings a week to sustain our spirituality and to encourage us. As a rule, people who miss meetings or who are not regular sometimes become weak and fall away. So, if someone is in prison for thirty years and never reads a Bible, Watchtower or any other publications, and all they can do is pray to Jehovah, who sustains them so that they remain faithful for the duration of their prison sentence?
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LB
So who have you met that has spent 30 years in prison??
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Dawn
I was in prison for 24 years............but then they kicked me out
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wholewheat
LB,
Is your comment what you call a 'red hearing'? I am learning alot from the ex-JWs on this board. You know and I know that there are brothers and sisters who have served 30 years or more in prisons and never had contact with any witnesses or ever read any literature, and yet remained faithful to Jehovah.
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hillary_step
WholeWheat,
I admire people who have the moral strength and integrity to stand by their beliefs, even if it means their imprisonment, however you present a non-argument as an argument in this statement:
Let me ask you this. We as witnesses have to make five meetings a week to sustain our spirituality and to encourage us. As a rule, people who miss meetings or who are not regular sometimes become weak and fall away. So, if someone is in prison for thirty years and never reads a Bible, Watchtower or any other publications, and all they can do is pray to Jehovah, who sustains them so that they remain faithful for the duration of their prison sentence?
In order to make any sense of this argument you would have to justify those non-JW's imprisoned for their faith for many years who also 'remained faithful' for the duration of their prison sentences.
Even more unraveling to your argument are the political prisoners who spent decades in an horrendous nightmare perpetrated by Stalin in his Gulags, not for any religious beliefs, but for political ones. They could have been sent home with a probationary sentence if they renounced their beliefs, but many chose torture and slow death rather than do so.
JW's need five meetings a week because any less would allow the emotional control exercised upon them by their leaders to lose its strength. People do not necessarily become 'weak' Christians when they miss JW meetings, they become 'weak' Jehovah's Witnesses. Christianity and the WTS are not necessarily synonymous terms.
Without wishing to be rude, I really would suggest that you do more reading than writing on this Board over the next few weeks. Search the archives. Do not presume that you are the first person to be asking the questions, or presuming that you know the answers to these questions. Remember the Proverb, "Even the foolish, when he remains silent is looked on as wise". You have freedom of speech on this platform, something not allowed you within the WTS, use it responsibly.
Best regards - HS
Edited by - hillary_step on 30 June 2002 22:57:20
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LB
Well I've heard the stories and back when I was a loyal JW (the type that didn't visit apostate websites) I certainly believed the stories.
I met one man that served two years in a camp during nam for refusing service. It sort of was like camping except for the indoor plumbing and television and swiming pool and tennis court. But he gets mentioned at assembly a lot around these parts. Who have you met?
Oh and I know that if I mention I don't like being called an apostate I get more e-mails from Brenda Hardy telling me how screwed up I am.. So that's fun too. Anyone else on Brenda's mailing list?
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OUTLAW
Hey Miraclewheat,Farkel and hillary-step have said everything I wanted to post and much more.I will leave it at that...OUTLAW
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professor
Actually, I like being called an apostate - especially by a group of cultists. It demonstrates how well I have my head screwed on and all my mental facilities working.
It has the added benefit of tarring the people who use the word. In the present atmosphere of awareness of the universality of truth, and the ubiquitious and non-judgemental nature of the Spirit, anyone engaging in the use of a term left over from the Spanish Inquisition is instantly identified as an intolerant religious troglodyte and a throwback to the ages of darkness.
So you go right ahead and be as perjorative as you can with that label. It does you great harm and it further confirms the rightness of my personal spiritual chosing.
Francois
That's one of the most intelligent and inspiring statements I've read in a long time. You are right, Francois. We should try as hard as we can to be apostates!