The Bible: It does'nt make sense

by Leander 34 Replies latest jw friends

  • StinkyPantz
    StinkyPantz

    Nancee Park-

    I read you answers and they just don't work for me. For example: The question was, "Why are there no miracles, prophets or divine influence in modern times the way it was in bible times? Especially considering that our time period is one that has the greatest need of any other period in human history?" You said something about flowers growing and the sun rising. I don't think you read the question properly. He said why aren't miracle performed "the way it was in bible times?" I think it was quite obvious he meant miracle like raising the dead with a mere touch or turning water to wine by wishing it to be so, or healing someone instantly without medicine, or making the sun stand still, etc. Why aren't these things happening when "our period is one that has the greatest need of any other period in human history?"

    He also asked the question,"If angels were persuaded to leave heaven and join in with Satan, why would God banish Satan and all his demons to the Earth where imperfect humans dwelled? If angels who lived in the very presence of God fell prey to Satan what hope is there for humans?" You said that we'll be resurrected. Well apparently those of us that were formerly JW's and have falling astray because of Satan's wiles won't have a chance (according to JW's). But of course we wouldn't. If angels couldn't resist Satan then how can humans. . . doesn't seem fair. BTW John Wayne is not resurrected via TV, he is not alive, therefore it's only his image like a picture.

    I gotta go to work so I gotta cut this short. .

  • Kingpawn
    Kingpawn

    Leander,

    Since others have taken a try at answering your questions, I figured I'd try too.

    If God really wants us to know him, why would it be so difficult for mankind to get a similar or correct understanding of his word the bible?

    This, to me, kind of presumes mankind never has gotten a correct understanding of Scripture. Possibly no one person or group has succeeded 100%, but the basic teachings seem fairly broad. The Golden Rule, love for God, are blanket principles applicable in so many situations. If, for example, everyone was always honest and all the world had been since day one, would this be considered bad? So maybe the question becomes, if we practice Biblical principles that we know about wholeheartedly (iow once we know a principle we do our utmost to live it/apply it daily) that we see are good and logical, aren't we growing in knowledge of God?

    Why would Satan be allowed to corrupt or alter God's word when there are honest people truly seeking to learn about God thru the bible?

    Because sin came into the world because of his ambition and our arrogance. Instead of reconciling people to fit the Gospel, we do the reverse. Anytime a schism arises in a denomination over a doctrinal or other viewpoint an opportunity is created for the creation of yet another branch of Christianity. Many prefer the new to the old. And many times the "new" is less restrictive than the old. We want our standards, not His. Politics within a church can play a role too.

    Why are there no miracles, prophets or divine influence in modern times the way it was in bible times? Especially considering that our time period is one that has the greatest need of any other period in human history?

    Paul said such things would cease. The late Jeanne Dixon felt her prophetic abilities were a gift from God. But consider that when predicting President Kennedy's death, she took three times to get it right. And was it so hard to predict someone wanted to kill him? Anti-Castro Cubans blamed him for the failure of the 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion; the CIA hated him because he blamed it for the invasion's failure, wanted to "smash it into a thousand splinters and scatter them to the four winds of heaven," and planned a review of its worldwide activities; the Teamsters Union hated him for his not reining in his brother Bobby, who as Attorney General had exposed Mob influence in labor unions and who was daily battling with Teamsters President Jimmy Hoffa; the Mob hated him because they were getting rich by loans from the Teamster's Pension fund they never intended to repay, and their ability to keep doing that was hampered by Justice Dept. investigations; the Right hated him for appeasing Kruschev and abandoning Tito, as well as his civil rights initiatives; and Texas oilmen didn't like his efforts to repeal the oil depletion allowance as an income tax deduction. So Jeanne Dixon wasn't exactly going out on a limb.

    Remember what was said in the parable of the rich man and Lazarus about sending the dead to tell the living of the fates awaiting them after death? The answer was made that if they didn't believe the prophet's warnings, someone from the dead wouldn't convince them either.

    Miracles occur; we just don't recognize them. The sun shining for billions of years past and in the future; a flower blooming in the hostile desert; the planets maintaining precise orbits around the sun; an ant able to lift several times its own weight; larva to caterpillar to butterfly are some examples. We are the creators of everything unnatural, yet for all our technology we can't create a blade of grass.

    If angels were persuaded to leave heaven and join in with Satan, why would God banish Satan and all his demons to the Earth where imperfect humans dwelled? If angels who lived in the very presence of God fell prey to Satan what hope is there for humans?

    Satan was sent here to confine him and to send notice his time's about up--for his knowledge as well as ours. IOW, God has a timetable and the experiment of allowing us to do our own thing is about up.

    What hope for us? Even sinners can do the right thing if left alone to do so. Every person who does right is living proof Satan wasn't right in his claim we only do good because of what good was done to us. And what of those who do good when there's nothing in it for them? They give to charity, mentor teenagers or ex-convicts, teach someone to read, and so on. There are temptations and there are chances to meet the needs of others.

    Why have humans through-out bible history been punished with death, yet Satan and his demons have lived for thousands and thousands of years? Also has there been any human who has sinned against God the way Satan has?

    I believe in the Society's explanation: when we rebelled in Eden we said to God that we'd make our own path. He's let us wallow in the muck of our efforts. We've accomplished many things, but what use are they if we can't end death or disease, crime, poverty, and so on? Anyone trying runs up against opposition from others benefitting from the status quo. If Satan doesn't rule us, how explain those who would steal food and medicine given to help others in order to sell them on the black market for their personal gain?

    Satan's been allowed time to try and prove his claim about human motivations. Think what the knowledge of certain death would do to someone, and you aren't allowed to tell God you're sorry because you were once perfect like Adam and Eve. Wouldn't that drive you literally insane after a few hundred years? So you try and take as many with you as possible while trying to prove your point.

    I'd say Adam and Eve qualify for your second question. Anyone else who's demanded worship from others, being accountable to no one, would qualify in my mind.

    Just my $.02 worth.

  • LyinEyes
    LyinEyes

    OK , Leander, have you been reading my mind??? Those are some of the same things I have asked my husband. I don't think anyone can tell you the answers, even thou some try, it is still an imperfect persons interpretation. I tried reading the bible awhile back, I got as far as Gen. chapter 6 and got really pissed off. I don't understand the flood, it makes no sense. I think the bible may have historical events in some accurancy, but for the whole I think a bunch of men wrote what they THINK God, meant by the things he did. I am so confused by the whole thing, I even doubt at times there is a God. I really am glad that there are those out there that have found their faith in God, I am still working on mine. I don't think I will get it by praying or bible reading. It's been over a year and I still don't feel I know anymore about God. I do know more about JW and their teachings and they are wacked out of their minds, but I guess it will just take time to find some kind of peace , for me.

  • raven101
    raven101

    Leander, indeed it makes no sense, I now look at the bible as a work of fiction . . . and a particularly bad piece at that.

    Stinky Pantz, good call on Nancee, you picked right up on the fact that she didn't answer anything!

    Nancee, sad to say you didn't answer anything but just rattled off a hand fed load of hogwash. Much sadder to say you aren't at all aware of this fact, I'm not being facetious here, this is truly a tragic and almost insurmountable problem . . . you are absolutely blinded. I don't know what to say to you, I wish I could help. You are just being led around by the nose.

    The fact that you indeed did not answer any of the questions and are under the impression that you not only answered them but with some imagined indisputable spiritual truth or something is shocking to me. I am really at a loss, but you will never find what you are searching for with those blinders on. Seriously look back at your 'answers', take a critical thinking class if necessary . . . you will hopefully see they are not answers at all.

    ALL: I guess instead of feeling shocked and at a loss at Nancees blindness this is a good point for us all to be thankful we have removed that particular set of blinkers!!!!

    Thanks to you all for assisting me in removing mine.

    Thanks to you Simon for this sight (site)!

    Looking back at this point I feel about the organization and all religion like someone skirting a serious auto accident or recovering from some acutely painful condition . . . "Whew! I'm glad I'm out of THAT one!"

    raven101

  • nancee park
    nancee park

    I did indeed answer the questions that those of you who are atheists are trying to dance away. To each their own. If you are going to be atheists and also into paganism or witchcraft as Rhavin is, then I just pray you may somehow still be fairly decent humans.

  • expatbrit
    expatbrit

    Leander:

    Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem.

    Expatbrit

  • gumby
    gumby

    Relax everyone......he'll be here in 2000 more years. He's testing us to see if we'll give up on him.

  • BeautifulGarbage
    BeautifulGarbage

    If you are going to be atheists and also into paganism or witchcraft as Rhavin is, then I just pray you may somehow still be fairly decent humans.

    Ah, yes! Because one is not a christian, or doesn't believe the Bible is inspired, there is only a remote chance they will manage to be "fairly decent humans". Oh, and if you're into paganism or witchcraft to boot, YIKES!

    Someone has watched Rosemary's Baby once too many times

    Wait a minute! Scatch that! A paganistic atheist?!?! A atheist who is into witchcraft?!?!

    *******WARNING!*********

    Does not compute!

    When I was about 11 or 12 I befriended a girl whose Mom claimed to be a witch. Nice lady her Mom was. Very normal family too. Loving parents. However, their black bottom swimming pool gave me the creeps.

    Then there's my best girlfriend. She is an atheist. She is from a family of 5 kids. Atheists the whole lot of them. Interestingly enough, they are the most loving, normal, opening-minded family I have ever known. They all like each other. No family feuds. Give to charity and volunteer. Great group of people.

    Oh, I know some nice christians too. A married couple that I have known for years are born again christians. Nice people too. However, they both believe that God should destroy Gay people. Why? Because the BIBLE tells them so!

    The bible. The book the brought us "spare the rod, spoil the child". Or in laymans terms: Beat the crap out of them!

    So, in short, Nancee, from my side of the mountain, sometimes *I* am amazed that some CHRISTIANS manage to turn out DECENT!

    Andee

    Edited by - BeautifulGarbage on 8 July 2002 22:51:52

  • Dawn
    Dawn

    However, they both believe that God should destroy Gay people. Why? Because the BIBLE tells them so!

    This is a real pet-peve with me - Christian's who are so self-righteous when it comes to a lifestyle they don't agree with.

    I'm a born-again Christian, and I have to admit that I believe living a Gay lifestyle is a sin.... and so is getting drunk, coveting, looking at another person with lust, lying, etc. etc. etc. Well...I got drunk last weekend, and I have definately looked with "lust" at others...and I could go on and on and on. We all do something - we're all sinners, who says one thing is better than another? We all live with temptations and we all fall short - and we're all equal in that way.

    And for those who say ........"well look at Sodom & Gomorrah.." Well - I have read that account and it seems to me that the problem was their lack of love for others and they had no regard for other human beings. Would the story have been any different if the Angels had shown up and it was WOMEN outside beating down the door to have sex with them - insisting that they perform? NO!! It wasn't that it was a gay act - it was the attitude, the lack of love for anyone other than themselves.

    Ok - I'll get down off my soap box now.

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    Leander asked: "If angels who lived in the very presence of God fell prey to Satan what hope is there for humans?"

    What you suggest here is a common misconception, I believe. In other words, conventional thought has it that God and all the angels share the same abode or Heaven. Of course nothing could be more FICTIONAL, I believe! Personally, I am fully convinced that there is only ONE angel that 'lives in the very presence of God'. THAT angel being Michael (Jesus). Yes, Jehovah God resides in a "Heaven" of his own, a place sufficiently large enough to accommodate HIMSELF -- which is separate and distinct from the spiritual realm or "Heaven" in which the angels in general live. The particular Heaven (abode) in which the huge complement of angels reside is simply not big enough to 'house' the God of the Universe. I really believe this is what Solomon understood and alluded to at 1 Kings 8:27 (compare 2 Chronicles 2:6 and 6:18).

    Dealing with this very subject, here's a couple of links to pages on my personal site which you and other reader's of this forum may find worthy of your time.

    http://4heavens.homestead.com/21.html (This is where you will see diagrams that illustrate God's place of residence in contrast to where the angels themselves live.)

    http://4heavens.homestead.com/4HeavensExplained.html (Here you will find where I once got started with the explanation of my understandings regarding this matter, but have yet to conclude with it. One day yet I do plan to finish it, but maybe its sufficient enough *as is* for others to grasp the idea.)

    Yadirf

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