The Inherent Goodness Fallacy (page 2)

comforter

Dakota

Does the badness of child molestation depend on my definition of it? And that act is not only happening in churches and the kingdom halls. It is happening around the world. Look at the Elizabeth Smart case. How sad.

Some people in this place are kind. But I have seen many that are not. If you just come in this place and dissent from popular opnions iun this place, you get cussed out and reviled. I consider such behavior evil.

And I don't know hardly any jw who look forward to 99.9% of people being killed. Else why go out and preach from door to door trying to warn people of the oncoming destruction?

And as far as your claim that people outside the "borg" are good, you musta had your head in a hole of late. What about the terrorist threat in the US and things that go on in Jerusalem? These things are evil. What about non jw moms who drown their children? What about men who abduct and kill young people? Humanity is evil Wars and all.

Comforter

hillary_step

Hi Comforter,

Some people would view using the doctrine of disfellowshipping others as 'good', others would view it as evil.

Do you view the doctrine of shunning as 'good' or 'bad'.

When the Jews were asked by God to slaughter the Caananites, man, women and child, were their actions 'good' actions or 'bad' ones. Your theology would surely dictate that they did a 'bad' act to achieve a good end? Of course many would argue with this and suggest that they did a 'bad' act for a 'bad' end, but what you need to do isto present evidence for your assertions Comforter, because as I noted your arguments, as presented in your openeing post are simplistic in the extreme.

You may be correct that all of us carry seeds of Gods love in our hearts and that this leads us to do good, but in that case what leads us to behave badly? The seeds of Adam? Describe this process for us and let us judge your theology on its merits.

Your inclination toward Augustian theology is not new and it may have held some aesethic charms in its day, but imho it has been at the basis of much blood and suffering these past few hundred years.

Best regards - HS

hillary_step

D8TA,

I do not think that I have read a post by Comforter before. If he is a 'troll' thank you for the warning.

Best - HS

Dutchie

And I don't know hardly any jw who look forward to 99.9% of people being killed. Else why go out and preach from door to door trying to warn people of the oncoming destruction?

Comforter, when we went from door to door we knew that the majority of people would not listen. However, we were taught that it was our responsibility to go and find those few sheep like ones who would listen. Remember, narrow is the road........... If you calculate the population of the world against the number of active Jehovah's Witnesses ....... well, surely you get the picture.

IslandWoman

"Dear" Comforter,

You did not provide proof of Jesus' rejection of the common man and woman because of their "sins". To the contrary he spoke forcefully against the hypocritical religious men who raised themselves above the common man.

This is what you seem to do. You raise yourself up, you love yourself and display your self-righteousness. Perhaps you are having your reward right now? It seems so.

IW

DakotaRed

And as far as your claim that people outside the "borg" are good, you musta had your head in a hole of late. What about the terrorist threat in the US and things that go on in Jerusalem? These things are evil. What about non jw moms who drown their children? What about men who abduct and kill young people? Humanity is evil Wars and all.

Baiting, Comforter? How gauche. I never said people outside the JWs were good, but that for the most part, they are kind and caring. All groups have their misfits and malcontents and criminals. Yet, is it not the Watchtower that is denying they have a problem and therefore, nothing to clean up? Still, having been on both sides of the fence now, I still see more caring and concern for others outside the JWs than when I was in.

I have seen life at it's worst and I have seen it at it's best. Even with things at rock bottom bad, I still saw more concern for others and caring outside than inside. But, you wish to mention isolated incidents outside the borg. Care to mention them inside? JW women who kill their boss? JW parents who beat a child to death with a lamp cord? JW children who slaughter their parents and siblings? Given that the JWs comprise less than 1% of the worlds population, where do think the problem manifests itself?

The terrorist threat is worldwide, not just in the US. More than Amercians were killed in the WTC. Yet, that act alone showed the kindness of others, did it not? New Yorkers are looked upon as selfish and vain by most of this country, yet it was they who came to the immediate rescue and caring for all the victims. How many showed their inherent kindness by working around the clock searching for survivors and helping locate vicitims? Through the worst acts of man, many acts of extreme kindness have surfaced and shown the world what New Yorkers are really like.

As for terrorism itself, I hold some very strong views on it that really have no place on this forum. Suffice it to say I feel America is thirty years too late in dealing with the problem. But, for every isolated act of badness you mention, behind the scenes and often unheard of, there are dozens of acts of kindness that go unpublished. Volunteers seaching then woods for Elizabeth Smart, Civil Air Patrol donating their time and aircraft joining in the search. Even in war, I saw acts of kindness as well as gruesome reminders that war is not glorious nor should it ever be entered into lightly again.

No, your assertion that men are naturally evil is at best misguided, at worst, half-cocked. Carrying your attitude, since I am going through my third divorce, I would avoid and shun all women. Doing so would have denied me the privilege of meeting a really sweet lady online here. Looking for only the evil in man ensures that only evil is what you will find. Look beyond the acts of evil at the acts of kindness and self sacrifice others gave and discover what man is really like.

As to where my head has been, that is no concern of yours

Lew W

Satanus

D8 could be right. The thoughts in its posts are conflicting. It says

Comforter thinks we know what is evil by the inward appropriation or disappropriation we feel

We are made in God's image and we retain a touch of that image

all humans are inclined toward evil

they have a measure of goodness in them

humans are basically evil

It's contradictions nullify each other. Putting this all together, it is saying nothing at all. It includes itself in with the rest of the world.

SS

comforter

IW

I did not say Jesus rejected the common men or woman because of their sins. I said he did not condone sin. There's a difference. But my point is that your gentle Jesus condemned sin and talked about people going to Gehenna.

Dakota

I said that men retain a measure of goodness in their hearts. There are people that are not jw who do kind acts. But that does not obviate my previous observations. Man is inclined toward evil and basically bad. Most people will do evil acts most of the time. This does not mean that they cannot show some kindness every now and again.

I spoke ill of terrorism and did not just say that Americans suffered or died. And NYers did show kindness after that tragedy as did other Americans. But what happens after the tragedy? Back to the same ol.

SS

My comments only appear to be contradictory. They are just dialectical. Man can be basically evil and not be totally evil.

We are all oriented toward evil.

Comfort

comforter

HS

???You may be correct that all of us carry seeds of Gods love in our hearts and that this leads us to do good, but in that case what leads us to behave badly? The seeds of Adam? Describe this process for us and let us judge your theology on its merits.???

Genesis says that a young man's heart is inclined toward bad from his youth up. I believe then that we are predisposed to commit evil acts. That does not mean that we must do evil deeds. But we are inclined to do so.

But when Adam and Eve sinned, the fall did not eradicate the inward image of God from the human heart and mind. Man still retained the image of God, only now it was distorted and not perfectly reflected because of the principle of sin. The apostle Paul explained that there are two principles operating in a regenerate man or woman of God. (Romans 7) These two principles do battle with one another. They are polar opposites engaging in existential strife. But the free will of man allows us to make choices. We are our choices and can defeat evil thought the good. Scripture and the inward approbation or disapprobation that we feel when doing or hearing about sin helps us judge what is good or bad.

Man, if left to his own devices and with no self-restraint, will take the path often traveled.

Comfort

DakotaRed

Comforter, as I said, if all you seek is the bad in man, that is all you will find. I like to look beyond the headlines and the evil acts of isolated individuals and see the inherent kindness brought about due to these acts of evil.

But, a major difference between the worldy and the JWs. After a disaster, JWs like to brag and pat themselves on the back as Johnny on the Spot for their response and help given. Yet, that help is directed at rebuilding Kingdom Halls and for helping only JWs. Since you mentioned the WTC, where were the JWs in the digging out of the collapsed buildings? There were a few JWs that died there too. Yet, for all the bragging they have done about their rapid response to disaster over the years, where was the Watchtower in the rescue effort? Can they rapidly respond across the world, yet not cross a simple bridge to help in their own backyard?

Given the kind efforts and response of the so called worldly, and the non-response of the Watchtower, where does that place the inherent evil you claim man has?

Lew W

The Inherent Goodness Fallacy

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