On one of your posts you say the we operate with false assumptions. It seems to me that one of your assumptions is false, to wit, the WT is God's organization. Again, somewhere you wrote that the Jews were no longer God's people when Jesus arrived. It seems to me that they stopped being God's people several hundred years before this, after the destruction of Jerusalem and the last old testament book was written. Also, there does not appear to be any God directed organization from about 100 AD until 1879. So, there are long periods of time where God did not have an organization. So, why do you claim that he has one now? Yes, your literature says he does, but that does not make it so. Now, I suppose you can trot out some obscure, vague scriptures to argue your case, but the fact is, that the scriptures are so ambiguous that they can fit any age. Bible prophecy is like the Rorschach Ink Blot Test. The truth is in the eye of the beholder, not in the blots themselves.
Question for You Know
by larc 25 Replies latest jw friends
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hillary_step
Larc,
Bible prophecy is like the Rorschach Ink Blot Test. The truth is in the eye of the beholder, not in the blots themselves.
Yes, but if you had true and unbreakable faith in ink-blots, you would recognise that God is using ink-blots to make the 'wisdom of the world look foolish'. Remember, if you have faith the size of an ink-blot you can move mountains.
What YK does not seem to realise, is that even if he were correct in his Biblical interpretations, he presents himself in such an unlikable manner that even the sheep run like the clappers for cover. Perhaps he is a sheep dressed in a matching wolf twin-set...lol
HS
Edited by - hillary_step on 18 July 2002 11:50:46
Edited by - hillary_step on 18 July 2002 12:32:33
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Undecided
Since YK is the only anointed that has the TRUE understanding of scriptures, then how can one person be God's organization?
Ken P.
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JAVA
larc,
I believe in Blessed Ink Blots. They are real, and I can prove Ink Blots are real. When I get one on my shirt, I always bless it. Now if I trot out some vague concept (i.e., I believe in God) I can't prove the theory beyond saying, "I believe." The God assumption might be correct, but the burden of proof falls on the believer--which of course can't be done.
I just needed to defend my faith in Blessed Ink Blots, larc. May your ink pen never run dry!
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11thHour
You all are just jealous of You Know because he Knows things that you all dont know, and he drives you all crazy when you cant figure it out....just ask Jehovah for understanding, of course, you can just veg, to the TV.
I do that when I cant think..............
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Crazy151drinker
I think Im going to change my log in name to 1975.
"You all are just jealous of You Know because he Knows things that you all dont know"
He is right. I dont know how to believe in obvious lies, get brainwashed, or write a 20 page thesis on nothing. I also dont understand doublethink. 12 hour, do you realise that YOU KNOW gets all his 'knowledge' from the Ministry of Information and Truth?
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You Know
Larc: I will get back to you in a bit. I got stuff I gotta do right now.
11th hour: Check your mail box, please.
Crazy Drunk: I responded to you on those economic issues. I forget the name of that thread. But, check out the links I provided for you. And lay off the cheap beer dude. Try a nice merlot.
/ You Know
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hillary_step
You all are just jealous of You Know because he Knows things that you all dont know, and he drives you all crazy when you cant figure it out....just ask Jehovah for understanding, of course, you can just veg, to the TV.
lol....Keep up this sort of praise and You Know will appoint you to the position of a Ministerial Ink Blot.
HS
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You Know
On one of your posts you say the we operate with false assumptions. It seems to me that one of your assumptions is false, to wit, the WT is God's organization.
Thats why you are not one of Jehovah's Witnesses and I am.
Again, somewhere you wrote that the Jews were no longer God's people when Jesus arrived. It seems to me that they stopped being God's people several hundred years before this, after the destruction of Jerusalem and the last Old Testament book was written.
The fact that many of the prophecies dealt with the restoration of the Jews after their deportation shows that the Jews did not cease serving as Gods people at that time. The last Hebrew book, Malachi, as well as all the others for that matter, indicates that the Jewish nation would at some point play host to Jehovah's Messiah. When Jesus finally came to the nation it was at that time that he decreed that the kingdom of God would be taken from the physical nation and given to another people who would make up a spiritual organization.
Also, there does not appear to be any God directed organization from about 100 AD until 1879.
Yes, that certainly appears to be the case. Christian prophets, of course, foretold that the true faith would become corrupted. In Acts the 20 th chapter Paul told the Ephesian elders that wicked men would eventually gain control over Gods congregation of sheep. 1 Timothy 4:1-3 foretold a "falling away," or an apostasy, to the teachings of the demons. And he even foretold what a couple of those demonically inspired teachings would be, namely celibacy and certain dietary restrictions. We find then that the Catholic Church eventually became the institutional embodiment of the original apostasy. So, since the prophets establish the fact that original Christianity would become corrupt, it then becomes necessary for a restoration to take place. And part of that restoration would of necessity deal with restoring the original teachings of Christ. That is the work that Jesus would do. Acts 3:21 makes reference to "times of restoration of all things."
The first century experienced a minor fulfillment of the numerous prophecies that Peter was alluding to, but the major fulfillment would have to wait until Jesus Parousia and his ultimate manifestation in glory. So that explains the gap between the establishment and the restoration. Incidentally, the book of Judges makes mention of the fact that there was an interval when the Jews each "did what was right in their own eyes." That sort of explains how Christians got by during the long period when there was no real Christian leadership for God's sheep.
So, there are long periods of time where God did not have an organization. So, why do you claim that he has one now?
Since Jesus is the only true leader of Christians, and since we believe that he in not an impotent king, in that he is able to impose his will upon the lives of his willing servants, we should be able to determine who is, and who is not, under Christ's headship. Simply put, true Christians are those who obey Christ as their king. From what I see, Jehovah's Witnesses earnestly endeavor to obey Christ. For example, Jesus said 'Go, and preach about my kingdom.' Jehovah's Witnesses do that. Jesus said we must not be part of Satan's world. We are not. Jesus said to put away the sword. We have. Jesus said we must love Jehovah our God with all our heart and mind. We do, at least we try. Jesus said that we must be willing to give our very lives for his cause. Many of us have, and will yet.
Now, I suppose you can trot out some obscure, vague scriptures to argue your case, but the fact is, that the scriptures are so ambiguous that they can fit any age.
There is no such thing as an obscure scripture. "All Scripture is inspired of God."
Bible prophecy is like the Rorschach Ink Blot Test. The truth is in the eye of the beholder, not in the blots themselves.
Prophecy is not needed to identify the true religion. But, it does require a certain predisposition to want to know and worship God, in which case Jehovah sends his spirit and permits such ones to recognize the truth. / You Know
Edited by - You Know on 19 July 2002 8:10:0
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larc
Thank you for the clear response, You Know. Now, this leads me to another question. When I was a JW, they taught that Jehovah always had an organization. Is this still being taught? It would seem to me that there were large stretches of history, where this was not the case. Of course, if they have changed doctrine on this point, your explaination would be reasonable enough.