Since I live in Tallahassee, I will state that our city derives its name from the Tallahassee Seminoles who were the original inhabitants of the region, when the Americans began to arrive circa 1823. The word, however, is of Creek derivation and means "old fields." Early on, starting in the 1820s efforts to remove the Seminoles from the State, led to several Seminole Wars. The majority were finally persuaded to leave (1842) and these eventually became one of the Five Civilized Tribes of Oklahoma. Estimates are that nearly 300 refused to go and hid in the Everglades. Their descendants today number about 2,000 and live on or near three reservations in South Florida. Now Florida State University, thinking they were honoring the Seminoles, took them as their mascot. Of course, if you have ever seen FSU playing, you are probably familiar wih the war chant and the tomahawk chop. So, now comes the question, that has been debated here. Should F.S.U. change its mascot out of respect for the Seminoles? The Seminole nation in Florida as a whole says they are not upset by it, yet some maintain that Indian mascots are not proper for schools. I know F.S.U. is not alone in this matter. There are the Cleveland Indians, the Washington Redskins, Manhattan Indians, Atlanta Braves, Central Michigan Chippewas, public schools with the name of Warriors, Indians, etc. Is it insensitive to the Indians as a whole to depict them as a mascot or to use Indian logo? Any opinions?
How Do You Feel About Indian Mascots?
by Kenneson 21 Replies latest social physical
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LB
I think what matters most is does it bother native american indians? It appears that this offends a large segment of the indian population. I cheered for the Stanford Indians for many years. They got flack over the name and changed their mascot to Cardinals. Seems weird to have a name change but I think it was the right thing to do.
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gypsywildone
I have Native American relatives across the planet from FL, but they think the entire subject is silly, overly sensitive, & not relevant. We have discussed this, & they think the mascot has nothing to do with hwo they are or relevence today. Then should we next ban all old cowboy movies? We all think if you are going to start this, we will live in a very boring, sterile world.
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Robert_V_Frazier
Any opinions?
Yes. A think sports teams too often have names that show no sensitivity at all to the Spartans. Spartans weren't into wussy games like hockey, soccer, and american football. They were into manly sports like sacking, pillaging and rapine. (That's not a typo; look it up.)
Robert Frazier
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LB
OK, I have an illustration here. Forgive me, but the JW years left an impression so I have illustrations.
A few years back the Washington Redskins were in the superbowl. They had a pig running around with a war bonnet painted red. Great sport, what fun.
Imagine a team called the Washington Niggers. Paint a pig black and put an afro wig on it, chase it around. Great sport? What fun?? Wouldn't fly would it? How about the New Jersey Jews? Portand Pollacks?
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zenpunk
Well said LB. It bothers me how a culture can be systematically destroyed and then put on display when its convenient. As I am a member of the Lenape I say my opinion counts for something.
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JanH
Me too. Being grossly offended by the Minnesota Vikings. Wussies!
After all, the vikings had some of the same hobbies as the spartans, except they drank and ate a hell of a lot more!
- Jan
Edited by - JanH on 26 July 2002 9:36:25
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plmkrzy
I think is is between the tribes and those who have chosen to use thier identity for what ever reason. I would guess the they would not mind as long as the team was always winning.
Estimates are that nearly 300 refused to go and hid in the Everglades. Their descendants today number about 2,000 and live on or near three reservations in South Florida
There are more then that but especially right now with the multi-million $$ settlement pending you must prove yourself 100% seminole in order to be accepted in any of the tribes. (to collect any part of the settlement) That is new (goes back only a few years or so)
My fathers mother was seminole and I have one aunt left living on the everglades.
plum
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Windchaser
Poignant illustrations, LB. It sickens me: like zenpunk said, destroy a culture and then make fun of it, for sport.
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joannadandy
Ok--being I am a little college binx and NDSU is the Fighting Sioux, and my college wanted to ban them from playing here, and didn't want sports casters to refer to them as the Sioux and wanted to fine the college sportscasters who did say Sioux, I know how this thing gets out of hand.
My high school was the Milaca Indians until 1993, I believe, when the had to change it Wolves because Minnesota forced all schools with native american mascots to change. I was quite pissed at the time because I thought Indians were WAY cooler than a pussy wolf. I also never got why native americans were so upset. Hey I was 13.
Fastforward to my college days when they force you to take diversity classes etc. I took a Native American Literature course. Very very interesting stuff. The mascot issue came up in that class. I finally got it. People are upset because of the sterotype. It's not about respect, nor education. It's about promoting false information about an ethnic group.
they think the mascot has nothing to do with hwo they are or relevence today
Exactly! Which is why they should be gotten rid of. Indians do not whoop, do a thamahawk chop, or anything else. It's actually worse than how it is described as a team being called the "New Jersey Niggers". Because of most of the "sacred things" being misrepresented are religious ceremonies and practices that are very important to the native american culture. So it would be more like calling a team the "New York Christs" and having a guy in a robe, sandals, and fake beard throwing fish and bread to the crowd. It wouldn't get too far.
Plus there are always stories of how native american students who go to universities that play teams like the Seminoles and Fighting Sioux that have to look at posters that say things like "Kill the Sioux" ... etc. Overly sensitive. Maybe, but I think they have a right to be a little offended. Mass genocide will do that to a culture, go figure.
Mascots are larger than life images that play on every sterotype. I will use my own eye opening example. JanH pointed out to me Vikings NEVER wore horns on their helmets. I being a good little Norweigan girl--NEVER KNEW THAT! I guess you can take this issue either way, and see it as harmless, Ignorance is bliss, Or quite disrespectful. Ignorance does breed hate. Racisim (and yes I do see these mascots as racist now) is very subtle. If it were in the wide open it would be easy to get rid of.
I think this issue can be taken too far, as can always happen, as in the case of my college wanting to fine it's own student newscasters for saying the word Sioux. But I do think it is time for a change. And my own view is it's not nearly as harmless as it seems.