Why are people racist?

by MrMoe 100 Replies latest jw friends

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    Dutchie:

    The next time I tell my teenage sons "not to get their panties in a knot", I'll try to remember that it is sexist. It's an expression commonly used by many. If you have any calipers, check the thinness of your skin. I'm offended that you are more interested in dismissing the statistical facts of a study than looking for ways to identify the problem and look for solutions. The authors of The Bell Curve presented statistics that haven't yet been refuted. The book itself has been panned because some readers like you didn't like how uncomfortable it made you feel.

    Lew:

    I grew up in southern Missouri and I went to school with blacks from 1956 through high school. Perhaps in some parts of the country it was delayed up until 1966 or beyond. But just to be accomodating, let's say that in general blacks were educationally segregated until 1967. That means they have been integrated into the general education system for 35 years. That's almost 3 complete generations of primary and secondary school. Are we seeing cocommittant results? If not, what is the explanation? I would like to believe that race isn't the determining factor. Or shall we just continue to dream up excuses for underachievement, talk of making reparations, and turn our backs on the problem? I think that is where we are going anyway. YAWN!

  • Dutchie
    Dutchie

    So, The Bell Curve is not being challenged?

    There are two major books due out this fall that will challenge the conclusions of Murray and Herrnstein.

    The Brookings Institution, a Washington-based centrist think tank, will be putting out a book entitled ``Does The Bell Curve Ring True?'' Charles Shultze, Thomas Kane and William Dickens are the authors.

  • Dutchie
    Dutchie
    I'm offended that you are more interested in dismissing the statistical facts of a study than looking for ways to identify the problem and look for solutions

    The two are not mutually exclusive. For your information, I do dismiss the statistics in questions and I AM involved in identifying the real problem and seeking solutions for that problem. Are you?

    FYI, I do not believe that being thin skinned is a bad thing.

    Thanks.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    Drachir, underacheivment has little to do with race and more to peer pressure. You might call me an underacheiver as I didn't study as I could have and squeaked by with C's. I didn't even come to appreciate history until the 10th grade. And, I still hate math. I never did grasp algebra. Now, who do I blame? The rest of the white race? Or, myself?

    I'll grant you there are some who sit back and blame others for their failures, but you see them in all races. How do you think white supremacists survive? And they have tons of statistics and studies to back up their views. Hitler did too.

    Personally, I don't see regular education as the answer anyways. Maybe I am idealistic in this view, but when we can stop separating ourselves on the basis of race and just accept that we are all human, even different shades of the same color, brown, we might actually attack the problem for real and not just give it lip service. The regular three "R"s will not solve it, but teaching a change of attitudes might. But, not as long as we depend on studies and statistics that show one group less capablility of success than another.

    Since you are tired as to yawn, maybe you should go on to bed and sleep on it.

    BTW, saying don't get your panties in a twist might be an acceptable comment to your sons, but most of society frowns on talking to a lady that way, at least when I grew up.

    Lew W

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    Dutchie:

    It remains to be seen if the challenge is valid or not, doesn't it?

    If these works show that the statistics of the Bell Curve were flawed and that blacks aren't lagging behind other non-blacks in educational achievement, then we should be extremely happy and self congratulatory. You stated in an earlier post that the authors of the Bell Curve concluded that the differences in achievement could be genetic and therefore attributable to race. Genetics is much more than race. In fact, we know axiomatically that achievement is not tied up in the genetic blueprint of African Americans because there are many, many African Americans who achieve just as well or better than the mean for non-blacks. I'm not an geneticist, but I'm sure they would be amazed if someone concluded that genetics could be summarized as a racial factor. Skin pigmentation and racial features are tied up in the DNA, but are they controlling over other DNA factors. I'd be shocked to learn that they are. So, the authors didn't conclude what you say they concluded, did they?

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    Lew:

    Quit telling me what to think and what to do. That is so fucking Jehovah's Witness of you.

    Why do some people want to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that a problem doesn't exist? I have no clue. I'm done with this topic because I can't solve it and most whites are so tied up in guilt about it that they will give any amount of lip service and money to just make it go away. That is racist and disgusting.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    Now who's got their knickers in a twist?

    Sorry to upset you, I merely make suggestions, not tell any what to do. As for burying their heads in the sand, sorry again, but I am not doing that either. You see, I am not one with many years of education sitting in an air conditioned office pouring over statistics and studies seeking an answer for others or making excuses. I am merely one of the many millions that are actually rolling up my sleeves and doing the best I can for people, treating all decently. I raised my daughters to treat all people respectfully, regardless of race or infirmities.

    In any war, it is those of us in the trenches who actually get the job done, not the generals. They may make the plans, but we adapt them to the situation and do what is actually needed. It may be slow, but it is getting done. All the laws passed are not going to do anything nor is pouring money at it. Getting out from behind the desk and actually doing it will.

    To me, the real racists are those who believe that minorities can't succeed or get by without their help. Then, they feel all puffed up with what I see as the "see what I did for you" attitude. They are the ones who maintain they are superior, not those of us who actually believe all are equal.

    Sweet dreams

    Lew W

  • Faraon
    Faraon

    The latest on intelligence comes from Dr. Gardner. You can see a brief description on http://www.partnerstx.org/PC_seven.html He classifies intelligence as having seven components: linguistic or verbal, logical-mathematical, spatial, musical, body-kinesthetic, interpersonal, and intrapersonal.

    http://www.time.com/time/magazine/1998/dom/981019/special_report.how_to_m5b.html

    Gardner based his list on findings from neurology, developmental and cognitive psychology, and anthropology. He argued that these intelligences can be shown to be localized in the brain; that they are exhibited in extreme form by idiots savants, prodigies and geniuses; that they have a clear developmental history; and that they are used in the performance of roles that cultures value around the world. In the book's final section, Gardner explored the educational implications of the theory, suggesting ways the intelligences can be exploited and fostered.

    Those who hold that intelligence is a single, general ability and those who say it consists of many factors have engaged in a long-standing, bitter debate (although even those who believe in general intelligence say there are many subordinate cognitive abilities).

    Any educator or educational administrator worth its salt will tell you that the single best predictors in academic performance are if a child has a nutritious breakfast, and his/her socioeconomic level. The IQ tests are used for prediction of academic performance, and vary from child to child and change over time. As you may note, breakfast is also tied to socioeconomic level. Blacks were limited to low-paying jobs or slavery for a long time. They still have the lowest paying jobs.

    Cultural and gender biases in the design also enter into the picture.

    It has been established that females have higher ability in verbal intelligence and males in spatial ability. To have the test leaning towards either verbal or spatial abilities would surely change the outcome.

    I would be surprised if the same difference in IQ points applies to England or in countries who have effectively abolished slavery in the last 200 years.

    I read somewhere that JWs are slightly above the norm in IQ points, but they attribute this to the amount of reading they do. Yet, how smart can you be if you join and stay in a destructive sect, like we did? I also read that they have seven to twelve times more cases of schizophrenia, paranoid schizophrenia, and neurosis than the general population, but they don't know if people with those mental illnesses had them before they joined the cult, or the cult caused them to develop the illnesses.

    A simple search on the web gave me this results, but were not in the original research I did before writing the paragraph I am reading.

    http://www.carm.org/jw/mental.htm

    You can read a better exposition of it at http://www.caic.org.au/jws/medical/mental.htm

    Edited to change place of editing reasons.

    Edited to add quotes

    Edited by - faraon on 5 August 2002 7:3:39

    Edited by - faraon on 5 August 2002 7:5:51

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    DakotaRed: I want to apologize for getting angry with you last night. The subject matter is one I feel strongly about, as you do and I let my irritation get the better of me.

    Dutchie: I don't know you well enough to discuss getting your panties in a knot or any other way. I think I was just getting tired and should have used a little more patience in my response. I hope you'll overlook the slip.

  • DakotaRed
    DakotaRed

    Drachir, no need to apologize to me for last night. I think we are on the same side of the fence here, but just have different views as how to effectively institute change. I took no offense at your comments to me last night and your apology to Dutchie shows me you are indeed a gentleman.

    Lew W

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