Why are people racist? (page 8)

Dutchie

Larc,

Because they say so, does that make them right?

Dutchie, I don't think you understand how statistics are used in the Behavioral Sciences. Articles are subject to peer review by at least three objective experts. There job is to pick your research apart and find everything they can that is wrong with it. I know because I have been through it. So, the research literature is not composed of half baked ideas, accepted for publication on a whim. As I said before, because you say it is flawed, does not make it so.

Dutchie

Thanks Larc,

I appreciate your comments.

However, just because these learned men used their statistics to prove their point, also does not make them right or fair.

I still believe that The Bell Curve is one of the most racist pieces of writing I have ever read.

larc

Duthie, presenting facts and conclusions is neither right or fair. It just is. Now, it is common knowledge that there is a higher proportion of blacks in boxing, football, basketball, and baseball, than their percent in the population. Does that mean it is right or fair? No, it does not. It is just a fact, and that is all it is. How you want to interprete that fact is your business. The same applies to IQ. It is simply a fact. Again, how you want to interprete that fact is your business, as well.

Dutchie

There are only "facts" because society accepts them as such.

So we should use these "facts" to denigrate a group of people?

So we pull out our tests and statistics to tell us that blacks are intellectually inferior and whenever someone contradicts these findings we wave our papers with the numbers in front of them.

Blacks should just stop right now attempting to achieve anything on an intellectual level because all of our "facts" and "statistics" tell us that they will either be menial workers or if they are real lucky, then a sports star.

Great.

Edited by - Dutchie on 4 August 2002 22:33:47

larc

Dutchie, you post is emotion ladden and full of fallacy. First of all, facts are not because society says they are. They are facts because they are facts, simple as that. Facts do not of themselves denigrate anyone, as you assert. Does it denegrate white people because there are more black athletes than white? I think not. Now you say that someone can "contradict these figures" re: IQ test results. Really? Show me the contradictions. Now regarding the worst example of you pushing an arguement to its limit, is your saying that blacks should not try and just remain menial workers. It shows your lack of understanding of the bell curve and the overlap in scores between two groups. Your present your own stereotype, the sterotype that averages represent everything, and individual differences are not recognized, so don't attempt to drive me into the position you present. It is not mine, nor the position of any researcher in this field.

MrMoe

IQ tests are pointless, because they are based upon what you were taught and retained...

So if a child does poorly in school due to poor nutrition, lack of sleep, mental distress or a simple bad attitude, then tell me... how acurate is that IQ test to judge the depth of thier mind?

Dutchie

The authors of The Bell Curve claimed that the IQs of blacks are 15 points lower than whites, a claim that most of the mainstream media has treated as fact simply because of their claim.

The book's presence tapped into the resurgence of overt racism in American society, and helped people back up their prejudices with ``scientific'' proof. It is no surprise that the Right has seized upon the book as justification for abolishing welfare and other social programs to the poor.

After all - they say - if Latinos and blacks are genetically doomed to fail, why should we give them money?

larc

Mr. Moe, the factors you mention can affect scores, but not very much, by the way. Dutchie, as I have said repeatedly, the facts are the facts. How they are used are another matter. I wish you would get this point I am making.

drahcir yarrum

Dutchie:

Since 1952 blacks in America have been attending the same schools as whites.(Brown v. Board of Education) Same teachers, same buildings, same books and same school lunches and in many cases breakfast. There are poor white children who live in the same environment that poor black kids live in, but statistically they are faring better on standardized testing.

If I tell you that there is statistical evidence that 60% of all black births were out of wedlock and that black children growing up in a single parent family are not performing as well as black children in two parent families, would you call that information racist. Could there be environmental and cultural reasons that blacks aren't performing as well as white children in the same socio-economic setting? Absolutely. But to acknowledge that isn't racist. To want to continue the status quo, in my opinion, is racist. Studying statistics to arrive at possible solutions is not racist. Being a calloused poverty pimp, ready to label any white person suggesting a problem or possible solution, now that is racist!

The only way one could arguably be labeled racist is if they concluded that certain races were just less capable simply because of their race. Just genetically inferior. We know that is not the truth, and we know that is not what the Bell Curve advocated, so why get your panties knotted up when someone points out a problem? That is part of what statisticians do. They identify problems scientifically and then, perhaps honest social scientists will be able to offer possible solutions.

Why are people racist?

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