Don't believe in Evolution or Creation.

by sleepy 56 Replies latest jw friends

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Jan H: Ahhh, evidence? you mean a substance which much evo theories arelacking? lol:

    Over the past two centuries, researchers in Europe and elsewhere have found anatomically modern human skeletal remains and artifacts in geological contexts extending to the Pliocene and earlier. In the late nineteenth century, these discoveries attained wide circulation among archeologists and researchers in allied fields (geology, paleontology, anthropology). At this early point in the history of archeology, a fixed scheme of human evolution had not yet emerged, and researchers were able to approach the evidence of extreme human antiquity with little theoretical bias. With the discovery of Pithecanthropus (Java man) in the late nineteenth century and the discovery of Australopithecus in the early twentieth century, archeologists and others were finally able to construct a credible and widely accepted theoretical picture of human origins, with the anatomically modern human type arriving rather late on the scene. This caused the earlier evidence for extreme human antiquity to be dropped from active discourse, and eventually forgotten. In the late twentieth century, finds that could be taken as evidence for extreme human antiquity continue to be made. But archeologists often interpret them to fit within the now generally accepted scheme of human evolution. It is therefore possible that commitment to a particular evolutionary scheme has resulted in a process of knowledge filtration, whereby a large set of archeological evidence has dropped below the horizon of cognition. This filtering, although unintentional, has left current researchers with an incomplete data set for building and rebuilding our ideas about human origins.

    In 1849, gold was discovered in the gravels of ancient riverbeds on the slopes of the Sierra Nevada Mountains in central California, drawing hordes of rowdy adventurers to places like Brandy City, Last Chance, Lost Campe, You Bet, and Poker Flat. Occasionally, the miners would find stone artifacts, and more rarely, human fossils.

    The majority of gold-bearing gravels were laid down in stream channels during the Eocene and Early Oligocene. During the Oligocene, Miocene, and Pliocene, volcanic activity in the same region covered some of the auriferous gravels with deposits of rhyolite, andesite, and latite.

    In particular, widespread andesitic mudflows and conglomerates were deposited during the Miocene. These attained a considerable thickness, varying from more than 3,000 feet along the crest of the Sierras to 500 feet in the foothills. The volcanic flows were so extensive that they almost completely buried the bedrock landscape of the northern Sierra Nevada mountain region.

    Over the course of time, rivers carved deep channels up to a couple of thousand feet below the level of the prevolcanic gravels. This allowed Gold Rush miners to reach the auriferous gravels by digging horizontal tunnels into the sides of the channels. The advanced stone tools found in these tunnels could be from Eocene to Pliocene in age. California State Geologist J. D. Whitney concluded that modern man existed in California previous to the cessation of volcanic activity in the Sierra Nevada.

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Sleepy, get off the fence! This is the universal issue and you must take a firm stand!

  • dubla
    dubla

    gedanken-

    It is only ludicrous if you're ignorant of what a theory is. It seems that you are.

    no, its ludicrous because of the way you presented it. comparing theories is one thing, but the way you presented your comparison was basically equal to saying, "sleepy, your doubts about evolution are completely ridiculous, and this analogy is going to show you why". you delivered the information in a way that attempted to completely undermine sleepys comments, when sleepy in fact was never even concentrating on the "theory" of evolution. now you are putting on this show about how you were merely comparing theories, when theory wasnt the topic of the thread to begin with. sleepy said:

    I'm not fully convinced by evolution or creation arguments.

    now, if youre going to make an analogy, make it relevant. i suppose convincing someone that gravity exists and convincing someone that we all got here from evolution are pretty much equal tasks, huh? no they arent, which is why its a ludicrous analogy, as i said the first time. perhaps youre ignorant of what relevance means?

    relevance:

    1. Pertinence to the matter at hand.

    the matter at hand, was that sleepy wasnt convinced about evolution, or creation.....i somehow doubt your analogy helped convince her/him otherwise.......but at least it was exaggerated enough to make someone elses doubts sound completely unwarranted, and that was your intent to begin with.

    aa

    (edited for error...twice)

    Edited by - dubla on 7 August 2002 12:53:45

    Edited by - dubla on 7 August 2002 12:55:13

    Edited by - dubla on 7 August 2002 13:3:46

  • sleepy
    sleepy

    SixofNine Ahhhhhhhhh....I just fell off the fence and into some brambles.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    Carlos Ribeiro was director of the Geological Survey of Portugal and a member of the Portuguese Academy of Sciences. In the years 186063, Ribeiro surveyed discoveries of stone tools found at various sites in Portugal, and was surprised to find that some of the sites were of Tertiary age. Ribeiro proceeded to make his own collections of implements from Tertiary formations in Portugal. He presented his discoveries in 1871 to the Portugeuse Academy of Sciences at Lisbon and in 1872 to the International Congress of Prehistoric Anthropology and Archeology at Brussels. Some scientists accepted the human manufacture of the objects and their Tertiary provenance, but others did not. Ribeiro presented more specimens at the meeting of the International Congress of Prehistoric Anthropology and Archeology in Lisbon in 1880. A special commission was appointed to judge them. As part of their investigation, the commission members took a field trip to the Miocene formations at Monte Redondo, at Otta, and there one of the commissioners discovered an implement in situ. For many decades, Ribeiro's discoveries had influential supporters in archeology. But the discovery of Pithecanthropus erectus in Pleistocene formations in Java ended serious consideration of Tertiary toolmakers. The discoveries of Ribeiro, and other evidences for Tertiary man uncovered by European archeologists and geologists, are today attributed (if they are discussed at all) to the inevitable mistakes of untutored members of a young discipline. Another possible explanation is that some of the discoveries were genuine, and were filtered out of the normal discourse of a community of archeologists that had adopted, perhaps prematurely, an evolutionary paradigm that placed the origins of stone toolmaking in the Pleistocene. But as the time line of human toolmaking begins to once more reach back into the Tertiary, perhaps we should withhold final judgement on Ribeiro's discoveries. A piece of the archeological puzzle that does not fit the consensus picture at a particular moment may find a place as the nature of the whole picture changes.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    The age of the Salt Range Formation in the Salt Range Mountains of Pakistan was a matter of extreme controversy among geologists from the middle nineteenth century to the middle twentieth century. Of great importance in the later discussions were fragments of advanced plants and insects discovered in the Salt Range Formation by researchers such as B. Sahni. According to Sahni, these finds indicated an Eocene age for the Salt Range Formation. But geological evidence cited by others was opposed to this conclusion, supporting instead a Cambrian age for the Salt Range formation. Modern geological opinion is unanimous that the Salt Range Formation is Cambrian. But Sahni's evidence for advanced plant and insect remains in the Salt Range Formation is not easily dismissed. It would appear that there is still a contradiction between the geological and paleontological evidence, just as there was during the time of active controversy. During the time of active controversy, E. R. Gee suggested that the conflict might be resolved by positing the existence of an advanced flora and fauna in the Cambrian. This idea was summarily dismissed at the time, but, although it challenges accepted ideas about the evolution of life on earth, it appears to provide the best fit with the different lines of evidence. The existence of
    advanced plant and animal life during the Cambrian is consistent with accounts found in the Puranic literature of India.

  • ThiChi
    ThiChi

    In the early twentieth century, the Belgium geologist Aim Louis Rutot announced discoveries of stone tools in Oligocene formations in Belgium, at sites such as Boncelles. The artifacts, although somewhat primitive,
    resembled those made by modern humans, such as the Tasmanians. The discoveries attracted considerable attention. They were discussed at scientific conferences and were the subject of substantive articles in the
    scientific literature. For some years after they were discovered, they were displayed in museums in Belgium. However, because the discoveries contradicted the emerging consensus on human evolution, they were
    eventually dropped from ordinary discourse in archeology and the artifacts were removed from display, thus illustrating the influence of theoretical conceptions in the treatment of evidence in the prehistoric and
    protohistoric sciences.

    Edited by - thichi on 7 August 2002 12:59:45

  • dubla
    dubla

    Some evolutionists attack anything of a spiritual nature almost as much as fundies attack evolution/atheism. I could understand it as a kind of allergic reaction, i suppose.

    I agree SaintSatan, I find that many people with the two opposing points of view show the kind of patronising condescending bigotry that makes objective debate near enough impossible.

    amen.

    aa

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    yeah, yeah. Scientist worldwide love to hide evidence, not even taking a close look at it themselves. After all, scientist just have no real curiousity or desire to figure things out. Everybody knows that about scientist. Why, just the other day, I was talking to my friends and said "ya know, the problem with scientist is that they just aren't curious about stuff", I swear, everybody on the special school bus agreed, everyone of us! I'm so glad I go to the extra special classes at Paranoia high.

  • Crazy151drinker
    Crazy151drinker

    Hmmmm why cant you just combine the 2??? They have many simularities. Darkness then light (big bang), then the earth, then the sea, then the animals, then man....kind of like evolution. Now Im not saying the agree completely but there are many simularities. My whole point is, would Moses understand evolution? DNA?? Carbon Dating??? Biblical People would have not understanding of any of these things. I think God explained things to them in a way they could understand. If God came crusing through today, we would demand more information, but back then 7 days were fine. Anybody here take a chemistry or physics class lately?? Those classes are tough! Do you think some sheep farmer in 2000BC would understand thermal dynamics?????

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