Gedanken, I think we are on the same page. I think that religious people, regadless of their belief or disbief in evolution should just accept the fact that the belief in God is a matter of faith. Some have it; some don't. Scientists don't deal with the invisible world of faith. They deal with measurable world of reality. Crazy, yes "God" explained it in a way they could understand. Ever since then, the human race has far advanced beyond that primative understanding. Since God hasn't shown up lately, we are on our own to figure it out the best we can. Until God shows up to give an update based on our understanding today, we just have to keep on keepin on.
Don't believe in Evolution or Creation.
by sleepy 56 Replies latest jw friends
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funkyderek
The point I am making is that God would have explained things to people in a way that they could understand.
But why would they have trouble understanding evolution, if God explained it to them right from the start? Why lie?
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sleepy
Reviewing some of the replys its seams I must qualify the title of this post to explain what I am getting at.
I have a problem excepting the idea that there is a god who is above and beyond this universe, and who created life on earth directly as it is now or in the past.I have troubling excepting that the process of evolution that happens in living creatures is the sole reason for, and mechanism that causes our existance.
My problems with excepting these points are down to lack of evidence for both standpoints.The evidence may be there but I have yet to find compelling evidence on both sides and in fact feel that there may be more to he matter of how we came into existance than just these two ideas.
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dubla
gedanken-
I'm not confusing the issue - you are.
i never said you were confusing the issue, i said you presented your analogy in a very condescending way, in order to undermine sleepys comments. your complete intent was to make someone elses doubts look ridiculous, which just isnt a very constructive way to state your point to begin with, is it? i also said that your analogy was irrelevant, and i showed why......even sleepy said that his/her comments were not meant to focus on the theory behind evolution.
Somone can be legitimately unsure about the theory of gravity but only an idiot would deny that gravity exists.
again, this type of argument is really going to get you nowhere on a discussion board........you are implying then, that anyone can be legitimately unsure about the theory of evolution, but only an idiot would deny it exists. these types of comments may very well make you feel victorious, but they dont serve a constructive purpose in a public discussion/argument.
If evolution were not tied so closely to beliefs that people hold near and dear than this would not be an issue at all, as someone pointed out earlier in this thread.
thats completely false. i know people who believe in evolution and creation, and i know people who dont know what they think about god (in other words, they dont have religious beliefs that are near and dear to their heart), but they also know they simply dont buy into evolution. im sure your statement is true of some, but there would most certainly still be an issue, regardless of beliefs people "hold near and dear". the origin of life has not been proven, in any way shape or form....even your touted scientists still dont have a clue....it can only be guessed at. until someone figures it out (or its revealed), there will be an issue, period.
In what other field of learning do you find people who are barely able to write a complete sentence challenging the findings of years of careful research.
im really not concerned with the literacy level of everyone on this board, and how literate each individual is does not detract from that persons personal beliefs. i respect everyones individual beliefs, just as i respect yours. can you say the same?
Have you ever heard of a an evolutionist converting to Creationism?
yes i have, but i admit i only know of one case (of course ive never really known that many evolutionists to begin with personally). really though, that doesnt mean anything.......who cares if he believed in evolution first, then creation, and who cares if someone who was once a christian becomes athiest? its pretty irrelevant to the issue at hand....which is, in case youve forgotten already, your analogy. i realize you want to use this issue to springboard into a full blown creation/evolution discussion with me, or whoever else, but that was never my intent to begin with. so carry on if youd like.
i) Simon, how about starting a focus thread on evolution with the ground rules being that participants who resort to insults are ignored (self-enforced).
why the ground rule about resorting to insults....do you want to be ignored by everyone right off the bat?
Can the creationists here step up to the plate and not only explain why evolution didn't happen but put forth a compelling argument for Creation. Nothing I've seen on this board - or elsewhere - comes even close. The best Creationists can do is to complain that they are having their "intelligence" insulted. Well, it's frustrating trying to debate with people who not only don't have a clue but refuse to get one.
interesting challenge.....but im not sure why you directed it at me. again, to debate evolution vs. creation was never my intent when i continued on with this thread, my intent was simply to back up my statement about how ludicrous your analogy was, which i have.
(ii) Since the Creationists are so smart - why not branch out into other areas of scientific endeavor.
please let me know which creationist on this board claimed to be "so smart" as you put it. in fact, the only posters ive witnessed boasting about their intelligence level are the evolutionists. funny how that works, isnt it?
Creationists's denial of the evidence for evolution is no less ridiculous - actually more ridculous - than them all trying to do as I suggest.
yes, fall back on your failsafe "your beliefs are ridiculous" argument.......its a very constructive way to get your point across. have you ever read youknows posts? he uses the same tactic regularly, and you should see how many people truly appreciate it.
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funkyderek
the origin of life has not been proven, in any way shape or form
Evolution is not about the origin of life. The origin of life from non-life is called abiogenesis. Evolution is "change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations" and is proven to occur.
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dubla
derek-
Evolution is not about the origin of life. The origin of life from non-life is called abiogenesis. Evolution is "change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations" and is proven to occur.
i realize that, i wasnt trying to imply that one equaled the other......but i think mentally they do equal one another for many people, and they talk about "evolution" when discussing their beliefs on the origin of life. read sleepys first post on this thread, and youll see why my comments about the origin of life are relevant. i doubt highly that sleepy was trying to say she/he wasnt sure about whether or not there was any "change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations" taking place, but i could be wrong. in other words, the issue at hand in this thread is sleepys view of evolution vs. creation. gedanken was saying it wouldnt be an issue (evolution vs. creation) if no one had these "near and dear" beliefs, which i think is just wrong.
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Edited by - dubla on 8 August 2002 11:15:1
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dubla
derek-
since gedankens comment stemmed from yours to begin with, ill revisit your original statement:
If people's deeply-held religious beliefs were invalidated by gravity, that would be as big an issue as evolution
no ones deeply-held religious beliefs are invalidated by evolution.
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Edited by - dubla on 8 August 2002 11:20:3
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funkyderek
no ones deeply-held religious beliefs are invalidated by evolution
Yes they are. JWs and a host of other fundamentalists believe that God directly created each species separately approximately 6000 years ago and that species barriers are immutable. The fact of evolution proves that this is not the case, thereby proving that the deeply-held religious beliefs of those fundamentalists are invalid.
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dubla
derek-
"evolution", the definition you just gave for it ("change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations"), does not invalidate god or creation.
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funkyderek
"evolution", the definition you just gave for it ("change in the genetic composition of a population during successive generations"), does not invalidate god or creation.
I never said it did, but evolution as it has occurred over many millions of years with speciation does invalidate the claims of certain fundamentalists regarding direct creation 6000 years ago.