Dakota ck. your mail. I'll just send the article to you because i don't want to highjack the thread and it is a lot of text. You may have read it already but if not it is interesting.
Bible: God's Word?/ WTBTS: The Truth?
by AGuest 29 Replies latest jw friends
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DakotaRed
I got the article, Plm and thanks. Interesting read, that's for sure. But, since I just woke up from a weird dream and my eyes aren't working in conjunction with other, I want to reread it in the morning.
But thanks again, I had heard rumors of something as that, but never saw it in an article before.
Lew W
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Undecided
If God really did inspire the bible to inform man of his thoughts and what he requires of us, then I don't have much confidence in his ability to communicate with his creation. Just look at the religious situation of the world, I think it went right over their and my heads. You seem to be the only one on earth who got the message, do you think that's fair of God?
Ken P.
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apostate
I accepted the Bible as the word of God because when I begun studying it, it looked so complex, so full of wisdom that I knew neither I nor anyone else I knew could have written such a book.
After studying it for almost a decade I realized it is like a poisoned food. It contains "lots of nutrition" but taking it in makes people sick, even kills many of them. In my opinion the Bible is a very abusive book. Definitely not written to be understood easily.
Since than I realized just because it seems so complex, so full of wisdom it doesnt mean that a group of smart people could not have written it.
Thinking about the skyscrapers of New York City, the space shuttle, computer networks etc. No one human could ever make these things happen but if you give enough time, money and resources to a group of smart people they can come up with seemingly impossible tasks without Gods help.
The Bible could be written by a group of very smart people. Some people realized it long time ago that if they figure out how to control others mind they can benefit from it greatly. The Bible designed to do just that. Mess up peoples mind, create a virtual reality full of nice promises coupled with fears. The Bible is full of spiritual abuse.
You must do this or else
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plmkrzy
well don't worry about it, "Greeneggs&Ham" doesn't make any sense to me so I don't read it anymore
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AGuest
Dearest Dakota Red, Undecided, jjrizo and apostate... may you all have peace!
Please let me say to you (and if I am directing this to the wrong one(s), please forgive and take what you need and condescend to consider the rest...), that:
1. God did not direct the Bible to be compiled. No where IN the Bible will you find such a direction. Each 'scripture' (meaning that which IS scripture and not the other writings) was meant to stand on its own... and can. If you read them, you will see that. And it is only scripture that He directed to be written.
2. The other OT writings were for the purpose of preserving Israelite history (with regard to both the Jews AND the Samaritans - the 2-tribe kingdom of Judah (Judah and Benjamin) and the 10-tribe kingdom of Israel (the other 10 tribes). Why? Because they were a bit too simple, too pious, too self-righteous, with hard heads, hard hearts and stiff necks... so that rather than LISTEN to the prophets, they had to have the Law 'written on stone'. Because that Law, its features and their lineage/histories was not WRITTEN ON THEIR HEARTS, they had to have it written down. In order to keep the PURITY of what was written, scribes were designed among Israel to copy the Law, etc. HOWEVER, as Jeremiah 8:8 tells US... the stylus of the secretaries (copyists) was... "FALSE". Much was changed, altered, removed, added, etc. It was because of THIS that the warning was given in the NT scripture, the Revelation.
3. Excluding the Revelation, the writings of the NT were set down because: long after my Lord had finished his work on earth and poured out holy spirit upon those 'thirsting', an apostasy was forming that was leading the disciples AWAY from the Truth! Unfortunately, my brother in Christ, the Apostle Paul, may have had an inadvertent hand in that, as well as many of my Jewish brothers. How's that? When my Lord was on the earth, he FULFILLED the Law, so as to have it REMOVED in order to make way for and establish a NEW LAW (Covenant), one that would NOT 'yoke' mankind, but set us FREE! But... because of having ALWAYS existed UNDER LAW, once he left, many fell back into the old habits: not keeping an eye on THEMSELVES, but trying to put the others BACK UNDER LAW! I mention Paul, because he was quite guilty of this initially: as a YOUNG man, he was always judging, condemning and setting up laws. Even when he was corrected and acknowledged his error, he would fall back into that pattern. But he also had much to say that was quite wise and quite loving.
Bottom line, my dear ones? You do NOT need the Law 'written on stone tablets'... OR in books with delibe ink. If you truly wish to be a part of the NEW Covenant, the covenant for LIFE, mediated BY the Life... then you must have the Law written... ON YOUR HEART! What is that Law? Very simple: to love God with your WHOLE heart, soul, mind and strength, and to love your NEIGHBOR (which INCLUDES your family, whether you get along with them or not; your friends; and.... YOUR ENEMIES - Matthew 5:43-48). For it is only by LOVE that you will 'cover a multitude of transgressions; it is only by LOVE... that you will 'do good' to even one of the least ones of Christ's brothers, whom you may not know IS his brother... and thus 'inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the 'throwing down of the seed'".
Can you learn love from the Bible? Indeed, can you learn it from ANY book? Well, perhaps you can learn the PRINCIPLES of love, but there is only ONE WAY you can learn the TRUE practice of it: "No one has GREATER love than this, that he should surrender HIS soul on behalf of his friends" and "God so loved the WORLD (even though it was/is at enmity with Him) that He gave His only-begotten Son that WHOSOEVER 'puts faith' in HIM (the Son!) will have everlasting life."
That putting of faith is not a simple belief. But one must LISTEN to that One when he speaks to you (Hebrews 12:25)... and OBEY. And what will he tell you? Kill your dear child because the Devil wants him/her? No, beloved ones. He will tell you: "There is hungry one; feed him/her. There is a mourning one; comfort him/her. There is a stranger; receive him/her. There is a widow, an orphan, one who is poor, one who is sick... do not close the door of your tender compassions on such one but do what YOU can to relieve him/her."
We hear that voice ALL THE TIME, dear ones. All of us do. It is the voice of TRUTH, the voice of LOVE. Question is... do we LISTEN TO IT? Or do we say, as the WTBTS taught us: "It is not MY problem. I am not my brother's "keeper" so that his hunger is NOT my problem. He has others who should take care of him. I need my own money/food/warm bed/coat, etc., etc. I got mine; he/she has to get theirs." Do we say that?
Or do we follow... CLOSELY... in the footsteps of the One who bought us with his own blood, who gave HIS life on our behalf, so that we no longer belong to ourselves and walk in our own will, but to HIM... to walk in his? Would he see someone hungry and consider it another's problem? Or would he HAVE PITY for such one... even an enemy? Would he revile when being reviled and return evil for evil? Or would he let HIMSELF be 'wronged'?
It is not rocket science, dear ones, to know God, by knowing Christ. You HAVE a record, if you truly need it! But if you walk and exist in love, if you LISTEN to him when it comes showing love, when that voice 'directs' you and says, "Do this," or "do that", and you KNOW it to be the voice of LOVE... when it says "Warn your brother from me," for your brother has shut the door of HIS tender compassions upon his own flesh (family), his neighbor, and even his enemy... do you GO... or do you 'beg off', saying that is it not YOUR problem... you are NOT your brother's keeper?
Who are you like? Christ, who fed the hungry, healed the sick... and forgave the sins of ALL, whether they asked him to or not? Or Cain, who murdered his brother out of his HATRED and JEALOUSY of God's favor upon Abel... and who basically said that he was NOT his brother's keeper?
If you need the Bible to tell you these things, you are still a 'babe', still trying to understand and work out the 'elementary things'. If, however, you can see and hear the Christ, by means of letting him COME IN AND DWELL IN YOU... and thereby USE YOU to work out his will... LOVE... then you will know God. You will see God as well, for by this you will gain entry into the Most Holy, the dwelling place of God, and be given audience. Your prayers will be heard and answered and you will understand what the man of SPIRIT is... versus the man of flesh.
I bid you all peace!
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ
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AGuest
LISA!!! HONEY!! Peace to you and yours!!
Of course! I wish to see you, too. Give me a minute - I've gotta run to a class but I will email you as SOON as I get home. K? K.
Peace to you, my beloved sister/daughter-girl!
Your servant and friend, to time indefinite, and a slave of Christ for that long, too...
Shel
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William Penwell
I am not saying the bible does not have some value but it should be put into perspective as a book. I don't believe it was inspired as there is too many discrepancies in it. If it was God's word why did he allow it to be written and rewritten over and over again? Also when you look at the early Christian movement it was shaky at best. The early church fathers were known to add or delete what they wanted in order to support their interpretation or veiws of what Christianity should be. Case in point something I posted in an earlier post,
From the book, Honest to Jesus by Robert W. Funk it says;
Marcion, a wealthy shipowner who organized his own Christian sect, gathered into his Bible only those scriptures that supported his theological position. After coming to Rome from Pontus in Asia Minor (ca 140-150), Marcion promulgated a collection of "scriptures" consisting of the Gospel of Luke and ten letters of Paul, all heavily edited. The lesson was not lost on the later church. Both Marcion and the Church excluded books if they were deemed to deviate from desirable doctrine or practice. Marcion is also know to have taken scissors and paste to the documents he chose, He cut out parts of Luke and the Pauline letters that he didn't like. We do not know how often that same approach was used prior to the fixing of the text in the fourth and fifth centuries.
Will
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gsx1138
My Pagan self agreeing with jjrizo what is this world coming to. For me the Bible is too convoluted and contradictory but that is me. I find the Toa Te Ching to be much more rewarding. However, that is just me. If someone else wants to live their lives according to the Bible then so be it. All of the problems come into play when one person thinks they are more right than the other person. It seems the Bible has helped AGuest be a mellow cool guy/girl. Nothin wrong with that. As for whether the Bible is the word of God? I don't think so nor do I think the scriptures that AGuest is fond of are the word of God. But again that is me.
Blessed Be, AGuest
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AGuest
(Lisa, check you email in about 5 mins...)
Dearest gsx1138... peace to you... and thank you sincerely for your blessing. It is not taken lightly.
I just wanted to let you know, though, that I am not particularly 'fond' of scriptures, per se. I just use them (and other verses) to show those who have not yet learned to walk by FAITH... as opposed to walking by SIGHT... what the Bible itself says on certain issues. For example, it does not say that it is the Word/word of God, but rather tells us EXACTLY who/what that word it. Let me give you an example:
You and many others hear have heard the verse, "Sanctify them by means of the Truth; your Word is Truth," yes? And many take that to refer to the Bible (deeming it to be "God's Holy Word"). However, the Bible ALSO says that:
1. Christ is the Word - John 1:1; 1:9; Revelation 19:13
2. Christ is the Truth - John 14:6
3. Christ is the One who 'sanctifies' us - Hebrews 13:12
4. Knowing the Truth shall set you free - John 8:32
5. The Son is the One who sets you free - John 8:36
6. Christ is God's Son - Matthew 17:3
7. Christ is the Truth - John 14:6
8. Christ is the Word - (see above)
9. We are sanctified by means of God's Word - John 17:17
10. God's Word is Truth - John 1:9; 14:6
11. Christ is the Word and Christ is the Truth...
12. Thus, we are sanctified by means of God's Word... and God's Truth... CHRIST!
Do we REALLY need 66 little books to get that? Really? Do we really need 66 little books to help us to know and get the SENSE of:
1. "This is my Son, the beloved... listen... to HIM - Matthew 17:3
2. "God, who LONG AGO spoke to us by means of the prophets, has at this day spoken to US... by means of a Son - Hebrews 1:2
3. "My sheep... LISTEN TO MY VOICE - John 10:27
4. "Do not beg off from the One who speaks... FROM THE HEAVENS - Hebrews 12:25
In a separate thread, I will explain to you what this listening and sanctification is... how... and why. Separate because people tend to stop reading once something gets a bit lengthy. And as many here know, I can get a bit 'wordy' from time to time. But it was be pursuant to the voice of my Lord, as he has directed me to once again expound to those who are 'wishing, hearing and thirsting'... the Way of the Truth... more accurately. I will relate it to you just as it has been given to me, and how that giving takes place.
Again, I bid you peace.
Your servant and a slave of Christ,
SJ