So Should Germany Be Dictating Terms? (page 3)

LB

Realist did I disagree with you? I said we should live up to our reputation and go get what we want. After all even if the US doesn't do something it gets accused of wanting to do it.

but

inprisonmnet of japanese during WWII, korean war

less than 1% of americans lost their lives in german concentration camps. The totals were over 25% of americans losing their lives in japanese concentration camps. Boo Hoo for the Japanese. Guess how american women were treated in Japan during the war? They were forced to sell their bodies.

I won't respond to the rest. The treatment of native americans was horrible.

mustang

The Germans are obstructionists to what is a larger need;

They show poor taste and timing;

They are hypocrites: consider their past and this attempt at salving their conscience and atonement. Let them do their hand-wringing ON THEIR OWN TIME!!!

(Disclaimer: I'm of German descent and will say as I please of my misguided distant relatives, thank you. )

Mustang

Edited by - mustang on 1 September 2002 13:32:53

fodeja

It's probably a totally futile attempt, but: why don't we discuss E-Man's question instead of all this nationalistic crap? Maybe it's easier when we try to make it less specific, maybe that will keep the emotions out:

Is it acceptable that government A denies government B access to evidence on a suspected criminal, based on its disapproval of a certain form of punishment?

My opinion:

1) Either you do that consistently, or you don't. Period. No exceptions.
2) Don't wait until a high-profile case comes up so you can make your point as visibly as possible: decide on one course of action, make it clear to everyone, and follow it. Otherwise, all you'll get is nationalistic emotions stirred on both sides (q.e.d.).

I don't know whether the German government has practiced this consistently or not, but right now it seems that someone's simply taking an opportunity to abuse justice for politics. As I said before, Germany is neither the first nor the only nation acting that way. That doesn't make it better, though.

f.

mustang

On the death penalty: being "nice" (forgiveness, sweetness & light, no death penalty) doesn't work on the jerks who don't play by your rules (sworn killers who laugh at you and shoot you twice because you won't shoot at them). Sorry, guys, this is dirty work.

Mustang

Edited by - mustang on 1 September 2002 13:48:38

fodeja

On the death penalty: being "nice" (forgiveness, sweetness & light, no death penalty) doesn't work on the jerks who don't play by your rules (sworn killers who laugh at you and shoot you twice because you won't shoot at them).

First, locking someone up for the rest of his life isn't my idea of being "forgiving, sweet, and light". It's a severe form of punishment: it's the complete removal of freedom. You can't go anywhere until you die.

Second: someone who's locked up cannot shoot you, or anyone. The threat is gone.

Opposing the death penalty doesn't mean opposing self-defence, or violence to prevent other people's deaths (e.g. a policeman shooting a robber who's threatening him or another person with a gun).

f.

mustang

Unfortunately, the "nationalistic crap" is here to stay.

That is so BECAUSE TWO (OR MORE) NATIONS ARE DISAGREEING OR DISAGREEABLE. Even making it A or B wouldnt really help. Those "rule the world" freaks over at the UN would homogenize everybody, so that would probably be to the taste of keeping the "nationalistic crap" out of things.

Are they consistent? Not known, but probably not; that is especially the case if this is their first utterance of this matter. Heaven help us if they (Germans) are starting on a quest and we have another "mission from god".

LB

Second: someone who's locked up cannot shoot you, or anyone. The threat is gone.

Now this is just wrong, totally wrong and I've experienced that first had. I know a man in California. He worked for me. When he took off his t-shirt one day I saw tons of jailhouse tats so I asked him how he came about to earn them.

He told me he had shot a 16 year old boy in the head because the kid cheated him on a dope deal. Killed him. He was sentenced to death on one charge and life on another. He was on death row for 15 years when California overturned the death penalty. Well, he had already served nothing but good time and at his next parole hearing he was released. So much for life.

They get out all the time unless it's high profile. This 16 year old kid wasn't high profile, he was just a dope user from an average family.

Edited by - LB on 1 September 2002 14:6:30

mustang

"First, locking someone up for the rest of his life isn't my idea of being "forgiving, sweet, and light". It's a severe form of punishment: it's the complete removal of freedom. You can't go anywhere until you die."

MISTAKEN REFERENCE, but likely my fault for confusion. The "sweetness and light" DO-GOODERS are the ones who OPPOSE the death penalty. These are the guys who would rehabilitate the Al-Qaida.

Sorry, but they are following an obscure by-law in their religion that they feel says to kill. Like a few other religions we know, they have their scriptures twisted and even the scholars disagree on these interpretations.

Fine, we can send you and the Germans the bill for maintenance of these offenders.

In the case of the terrorists, there is another thought that is missing here: imprison them and MORE TERRORIST ACTS HAPPEN TO LIBERATE THEIR IMPRISONED COMRADES. We are better off, in the long run, to take the harsher action.

fodeja

They get out all the time unless it's high profile.

That's not necessarily an argument for the death penalty. It's just an argument for making sure that a life sentence really is a life sentence.

f.

Realist

@ LB:

sorry i think i misunderstood you...i just get a little annoyed if americans are accusing other nations (including germans) of being inhumane for what happened in the past disregarding their own history of atrocities.

i think the european societies have come a long way since the last WW. their justice systems are indeed as humane as possible. this is unfortunately not the case in the US. germany has spoken against capital punishment in US already on other occations. i respect therefore their position in not wanting to contribute to an execution.

So Should Germany Be Dictating Terms?

Share this