by searchfothetruth 49 Replies latest jw friends
To Larc:
Among hetro-men, I find that very few will admit that another guy is good looking. That is how afraid they are of the gay issue.You are so right. Ask a man what he thinks of another men and he will shrugg, but ask a woman what she thinks of another woman and she will tell you f.i. that she looks nice or is beautiful.But ofcourse women's minds are not occupied with sex all day!!;-)
I always roar with laughter whenever anything "gay" comes up for discussion. There are those who know gay people and understand that it's not a choice. Many on this list have observed that. Yet, there are also the numerable people who don't know any gay people personally and hold on ;to the old "choice" theory. These are either, IMO, people who are still JWs at heart, are part of some other fundie organization, or Republicans! Sorry, Log Cabin Rebublicans, if any, who may be reading this posting.
Bear in mind, that sexual activity does not equate with sexual orientation. I've known many ex-JWs who tried to "play it straight" only to ultimately leave the JWs and embrace their own sexuality. Also, if someone leaves gay sexual activity, it does not make them straight. It's who they are sexually attracted to that defines their orientation. Think for a moment: Before one is sexually active, if they are attracted to persons of the opposite sex, does that mean that they are not straight merely because they haven't had sex? The same thing applies for being gay: Merely not having had sex with someone of their own sex does not mean that they are not gay. The question is, who are they attracted to? Whether they act on it or not is an entirely separate matter. Ask any man who's gone through ex-gay "reparative therapy" and he will usually dodge the question regarding whether or not he is ;sexually attracted to men. His response to the question of whether or not he's arroused by men is frequently "I have a wonderful sex life with my wife", but, will never answer the question regarding interest in men. A lie detector test would expose him.
A few years ago the fundies had a poster child, John Paulk, who was an "ex-gay". He was found at a gay bar in the DuPont Circle area [very, very gay] of Washington D.C. BTW, his wife [who also had gone through reparative therapy] ;appeared to be among the butchest of Lesbians, IMO. See http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/825/825_paulk.asp
I've spoken with many gay men who've had straight girlfriends and/or marriages. When sked how they could perform sexually, the response [unless they were bi-sexual --- and based on my experience there are very few men who fit within this category, can't speak about the women] is that they sexually fantacized about men. A straight man would not do that.
As for me, I never had any sexual experience as a child or young adult, had a father present at home who took interest in me [i.e., not the JW stereotypical ;background that says causes one to be gay] yet always was attracted to those of my own sex. Life as a JW was one pure Hell. Once I accepted myself for being who I was and left the JWs, life became so much sweeter.
I always roar with laughter whenever anything "gay" comes up for discussion. There are those who know gay people and understand that it's not a choice. Many on this list have observed that. Yet, there are also the numerable people who don't know any gay people personally and hold on to the old "choice" theory. These are either, IMO, people who are still JWs at heart, are part of some other fundie organization, or Republicans! Sorry, Log Cabin Rebublicans, if any, who may be reading this posting.
Bear in mind, that sexual activity does not equate with sexual orientation. I've known many ex-JWs who tried to "play it straight" only to ultimately leave the JWs and embrace their own sexuality. Also, if someone leaves gay sexual activity, it does not make them straight. It's who they are sexually attracted to that defines their orientation. Think for a moment: Before one is sexually active, if they are attracted to persons of the opposite sex, does that mean that they are not straight merely because they haven't had sex? The same thing applies for being gay: Merely not having had sex with someone of their own sex does not mean that they are not gay. The question is, who are they attracted to? Whether they act on it or not is an entirely separate matter. Ask any man who's gone through ex-gay "reparative therapy" and he will usually dodge the question regarding whether or not he is sexually attracted to men. His response to the question of whether or not he's arroused by men is frequently "I have a wonderful sex life with my wife", but, will never answer the question regarding interest in men. A lie detector test would expose him.
A few years ago the fundies had a poster child, John Paulk, who was an "ex-gay". He was found at a gay bar in the DuPont Circle area [very, very gay] of Washington D.C. BTW, his wife [who also had gone through reparative therapy] appeared to be among the butchest of Lesbians, IMO. See http://www.advocate.com/html/stories/825/825_paulk.asp
I've spoken with many gay men who've had straight girlfriends and/or marriages. When sked how they could perform sexually, the response [unless they were bi-sexual --- and based on my experience there are very few men who fit within this category, can't speak about the women] is that they sexually fantacized about men. A straight man would not do that.
As for me, I never had any sexual experience as a child or young adult, had a father present at home who took interest in me [i.e., not the JW stereotypical background that says causes one to be gay] yet always was attracted to those of my own sex. Life as a JW was one pure Hell. Once I accepted myself for being who I was and left the JWs, life became so much sweeter.
John W Wirtanen
Edited by - jwinsf on 8 September 2002 7:17:25
Edited by - jwinsf on 8 September 2002 7:18:58
Edited by - jwinsf on 8 September 2002 7:20:1
Once I accepted myself for being who I was and left the JWs, life became so much sweeter.
Hats off for doing so JWinSF!!! Takes a lo of courage!
I've said this before,and I will say it again.......
I would sooner one of my children be gay/lesbian than be a dub! And that is the God's honest truth!
If I could know anything about my child, I would want to know it whether it's sexual orientation, IQ, eye colour or whatever. I wouldn't wish that lifestyle on my child though, simply because of all the problems society causes for homosexuals. When my wife and I bought our first house, our next door neighbour was gay and I remember when his partner died of AIDS. He came over because he had no one else to share his feelings with. His family had ostracized him because of his lifestyle choice. As I say, I wouldn't wish that lifestyle on my son or daughter, but if that is who they are, or choose to be, then of course I would love and cherish them. To do anything else as a parent is repugnant to me.
DantheMan,
Larc wasn't saying that if you, as a man, realize another man is good-looking that this means you are sexually attracted to him. No more than I am to Britney Spears. I can see why she is considered "hot" though I almost gagged when I read her statement where she responded to the question "Do you think you're a role model?" She said that's such a burden to put on people. She just tried to be herself (God help teenage girls then). THAT would tend to kill any lust I'd feel for her in other circumstances.
Now, gay porn does little if anything for me, though it should--the guys are younger, in shape, tanned, and--uh, shall we say simply--"all the rest"?
I wouldn't wish that lifestyle on my child though, simply because of all the problems society causes for homosexuals.
Big Tex--then the problem is society. Max Planck once said something like "A new scientific truth does not triumph because it convinces its adversaries, but because its opponents die off and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it." That could just as well apply to any new social, political, or economic idea, and maybe that's what it'll take here...gradually increasing acceptance.
On an unrelated note: anyone bored with my posts because the only emoticon I put in is the smiley-face...that's the only one I know how to make. I am emoticonally-challenged. I know Syn or someone posted a thread on this but I still can't make the faces do all those slick exotic things you veterans can! This'll get it noticed.
It's amazing, I don't think there is a topic that hasn't been discussed on this board. As a newbie I just search through and find all these old threads!
This was a comment in the thread
"If I found out my son/daughter was gay early in their life, I would use it as an opportunity to help my child learn that life as a gay wouldn't be an easy thing, and to be prepared for the challenges ahead."
Posted in 2002, its now 9 years later. One thought came to my mind. Being gay is only a challenge when the people in your inner circle make it a challenge. That obviously starts with parents. And parents only make it a challenge when they are biased by their own upbringing. It's interesting how hatred and ignorance is propegated so easily. I don't think being gay is such a challenge in 2011 when people can understand where their bias comes from and are able to move past it.
Here is the above statement reworded to a context everyone here can relate to. Would you ever say this:
"If I found out my son/daughter would reject the Watchtower early in their life, I would use it as an opportunity to help my child learn that life as an ex jw wouldn't be an easy thing, and to be prepared for the challenges ahead."
Would you be helping if you went ahead and then made sure it was a challenge for your child/loved one for either situation?
I know my 18 year old son isn't. Caught him on the internet the other day Googling "big Boobs". LOL But I have a nephew who is gay and totally shunned by my JW brother and my parents because of it. Damn shame, that.
After reading some of the responses to this thread I am struck by the fact that even ex-jw's need to label everything and find ways to feel superior to others. Oh and if it defies labeling then the demons have something to do with it.
As a Gay man I can unequivocally state that most of us are born this way. I knew from about age 8 that I was much more attracted to the male form than the female, but because I could never let anyone know that I went on to marry women twice. The feelings were always there and I struggled for many years with hiding my true self. Finally at age 40 I was divorced from my second wife and decided I was not going to hide anymore.
I have now been in a happy Gay relationship for 15 years and would never go back.This move cost me the rest of my family who had not already shunned me after being disfellowshipped in the early 80's. I once asked my brother: "How does my abject misery enhance your life?". I have yet to hear his answer.
Rather than seeking to label everything and everyone, and rather than finding ways to hate or express your "righteous indignation" try getting rid of the last of the JW residue and open your eyes. We are witty and talented and if you aren't careful you just might learn something.
30
