It is quite clear that the majority of the people here if they ever got baptized in the first place got baptized with the wrong frame of mind. First a person gets baptized to serve Jehovah not the W.T.S after all they are imperfect ,just like the nation of Israel was .But just like the nation of Israel was back then , the W.T.S are the ones that Jehovah has chosen to use to direct his people today . The W.T.S also realize that they are not infallible This is even brought out in the {Revelation Its Grand Climax At Hand} book 0n page nine chapter two read what is in the box. The only one that is infallible is Jehovah and he is the one that I dedicated my life to .The W.T.S is only the organization the he uses here on the earth.Just like he used the nation of Israel back then.
Are JW's only in it for the New System?
by In_between_days 56 Replies latest jw friends
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funkyderek
First a person gets baptized to serve Jehovah not the W.T.S
Baptism questions before 1985:
(1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?
(2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
Baptism questions after 1985:
(1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?
(2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?
Edited by - funkyderek on 10 September 2002 10:54:55
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overit
ozziepost, thank you. I perhaps have a different perspective on what the "Borg" is - because I feel everyone in IT is an idividual, and therefore are victims. Whether it is the writers of the material right down to the volunteers. I feel the "organisation" is a breathing satanic spirit that permiates into the minds of these victims. So when I think of the "Borg" so to speak, i think of the spirit behind it, not the individuals, I dont think they need our negativitey.
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ISP
Some dubs now believe in the New System like many do in heaven. Its not that real but they aren't too bothered. They will live the life regardless.
ISP
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hillary_step
Hello Mo,
Welcome to the Board.
The W.T.S is only the organization the he uses here on the earth.Just like he used the nation of Israel back then.
Would you obey the Organization if it asked you to do things that are condemned in the Bible? How far does your obedience to the WTS go? Is it absolute?
For example, if Jesus had been obedient to the religious leaders of his day, he would very likely have become one of them, but according to the Bible they murdered him, and that murder resulted in God punishing a whole nation for doing so by destroying Jerusalem in 60CE. Why did they kill him, for obeying them.
When Jesus threw money lenders from the temple, it offended the Jews so much that it triggered off a set of events that resulted in him being executed as a criminal. Do you not agree that God was using the nation of Israel as the 'organisazation that he uses on earth' and yet Jesus opposed its very leaders?
Best regards - HS
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Introspection
It is quite clear that the majority of the people here if they ever got baptized in the first place got baptized with the wrong frame of mind.
Hmm. Now why did you say "wrong frame of mind" rather than heart condition? I mean, that's what we're talking about isn't it? Now that I've said that you might say "oh yeah, that sounds better" - but why didn't you?
I'll let you in on a little secret. The reason why problems get brushed under the big piece of carpet called imperfection is because the witnesses are under the mistaken impression that it's all about the mind. They may render lip service and cite the scripture that says whole heart, soul and mind, but there is little actual understanding of this. That is why no amount of study will get rid of the imperfections. Of course, in this context we're not talking about something like not turning in all your hours, but major screw-ups. I don't even mean organizational or stuff about chronology issues, but rather how people are really wronged. You don't do that because you're imperfect, that happens when you have a dead heart. And so it goes, it's just a matter of supporting the organization and perpetuating this mind stuff that can only argue with the honesty of your heart. (by the way that's basically schizophrenia right there) That's not spirituality, not remotely. You might want to quote the scripture about the heart being treacherous and is desperate at this point, and that's true with some behaviors, but not at the deepest level. This is precisely why 'apostate information' bother witnesses. After all, if you don't think there's any truth to it why would you be disturbed? Yet every witness I know who has looked at anything that disagrees with the society (so not necessarily apostate) becomes disturbed, sometimes just mere mention of it will disturb them - it's one of the few things in life I've observed to be consistent every single time. It shakes them to their core, and it is from the same place that they recognize a very real possibility that they are wrong. Oh, better put it away before I find out the truth!
This simple fact that witnesses can never confront a challenge to their faith with any peace speaks volumes. Oh, to be fair I should acknowledge that some witnesses are not bothered by this stuff, but they of course basically ignore what the other person has to say - which is the equivalent of not looking at the other side at all. Half the time they don't even acknowledge the points being brought up and just goes on to quote whatever it is they quote, much like a machine.
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Mo
It seems to me that this web sight has been put here by apostates for the reason of not building up the truth but tearing it down .I have found that to try and reason with an apostate is the same as try to tell a member of the K.K.K that blacks are equal to whites in the eyes of God .You will get every stupid argument in the book against it , and why , because they do not want to accept it even if it is right . They even go as far as to harass other who do accept it. So with this said I will bid you goodbye so that you can all tell each other how right you are .I wonder though if your arguments will hold water with Jehovah when the time comes after all he is the one that decides who is right.
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funkyderek
I have found that to try and reason with an apostate is the same as try to tell a member of the K.K.K that blacks are equal to whites in the eyes of God
How did you find that? Whatever else you've been doing here, you haven't been trying to reason with us. You've just spouted the party line, and you haven't even done that very well. I don't blame you for running. It must be scary to find out that your Watchtower voodoo doesn't work on us. Go, bury your head in the Watchtower and avoid the pain of facing reality. Good riddance.
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Valis
I wonder though if your arguments will hold water with Jehovah when the time comes after all he is the one that decides who is right.
Oh my, so you mean Jehovah is going to decide? I thought he already knew what was going to happen...
It seems to me that this web sight has been put here by apostates for the reason of not building up the truth but tearing it down
You have no idea what the truth is Mo. Perhaps in your own fantasy land there is a jehovah and a Jesus that will judge everyone at Armageddon, which is fine for you, but not for us!. So many of us have lived shitty lives under the heels of the WTBTS that your version of truth is not only harmful, but just crazy as hell. BTW, should you even be here talking to us Apostates? Perhaps you should spend more time with your bible, the Watchtower & Awake, and less time here. Maybe a bit of field service would help curb your spirit towards one of mildness....get bent and go back to being a good little dubbie.
Sincerely,
District Overbeer of the "faithless and indiscreet" class
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Crazy151drinker
It seems to me that this web sight has been put here by apostates for the reason of not building up the truth but tearing it down
meant to write
It seems to me that this web sight has been put here by people who dont want to be part of a cult and for the reason of not subsidising lies- but tearing them down.
MO- Is it 1975 yet??