I have noted that the main problem for those who are seduced by the Watchtower Society is their ignorance about the Bible itself. People who believe that the Bible is the word of God usually ignore the studies on textual criticism and how scientific criteria forbid absurd stories like that of the Global Flood. So, I strongly believe that students in schools need at least an obligatory course on "the Bible" through the point of view of science and the textual criticism. I don't know about a book enclosing a summary of all these issues. Of course, Dawkins has done a contribution, and other ones. But we need a book of a high school level in order to show to the students the flaws of the Bible. It could help many people to avoid dangerous sects like the Watchtower Society. Secular governments should propagate this information so as to create a better thinking society of humans.
People should learn more about the Bible flaws
by opusdei1972 45 Replies latest watchtower bible
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prologos
Can you imagine already rebellious, smart-alecky teenagers coming home and badgering their ignorant "IN" parents with theses TATTs? wow! -
never a jw
Introduction to Bible scholarship at high schools? That'll be the day.
We are not men of faith, but we can always hope for a miracle.
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LorenzoSmithXVII
The Bible vs. evolution debates have gone on for decades. I think there are some aggressive, educated fundamentalists out there who have managed to look at a few of these issues and been able to establish enough doubt for people to continue to believe in God and the Bible.
But to be more specific, there is just not a whole lot of proof you're going to find from science to support some things the Bible says and you have to thus go on faith. But noting that, there are indeed some things in place now that support the Bible that is either ignored or misunderstood by the secular world that artificially give the Bible a bad name, so bring it on! Bring on the criticisms. But next to the criticisms should be what scientists and archaeologists are lying about. Case in point, the Exodus. Per the Bible the Exodus occurred at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III. The 10 plagues actually happened and the next pharaoh became a mnotheist. What a historical confirmation of the impact of the 10 plagues. But lying scholars and dumb fundamentalists who don't know Bible chronology never get there.
So I'm all for "higher education." Let's talk about it ALL! The Bible will remain primarily unsupported by archaeology or science for certain periods. But for the periods that are, people need to know as much about that as possible. In general, from Eden to the Exodus, you have scant evidence. Between the Exodus and Sheshonq you have good evidence but lots of debate about that evidence because of uneducated guessing about dates and distorted dates. But from the time of the Assyrian Period through the Persian Period, there is lots of confirmation of events and individuals mentioned in the Bible, confirming the history found in the Bible. So, yes, let's look at that and yes lets look at what the Bible itself says and not be fooled by scholars who are incompetent or have their own agendas, like JWs who need everything to work for 1914 and the fall of Jerusalem in 607 BCE, or Bryant Wood trying to make the fall of Jericho work for his date of 1400 BC, or the "maximalists" out there trying to make the evidence point to and confirm David and Solomon at a phony date that is a half century too early. So yes, let's get educated about the Bible. Let's dismiss the false books of Esther, Ecclesiates and Song of Solomon from the Bible.
I support education. Yes. Teach everybody about the theory of evolution. But also teach those same people about Biblical fundamentalism. And for Heaven's sake, let's become smart enough to at least date the biggest event in Bible history to the right pharaoh, the Exodus at the end of the reign of Amenhotep III! When that at least happens, then the fundamentalists will start to tackle more aggressive textual criticism. Drop the dishonesty and let's talk! But without honesty, what's the point? There are liars and deceivers on both sides of this argument, I'm afraid. Turns out you need the same amount of "blind faith" not to believe the Bible as you do to believe it in many cases.
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Half banana
What planet do you come from Lorenzo Smith? You want your cake and eat it as well.
Education means being led out to where you would not be otherwise able to travel intellectually. To have, or even need faith, is the reverse of education, it is the blinkered, inward looking cultural impulse to appear acceptable to others in your chosen community and it is based on nothing other than wishful thinking. The contrast between faith and knowledge must first be fully understood and then faith removed from the discussion if one is to get a proper education. Faith is whimsy, only knowledge from evidential and testable (disprovable) sources make for useable information. This fundamental cornerstone of the western intellectual discourse dismisses at a stroke the whole shebang of religion with its faith and other holy drivel. Religion and mythology were the socially unifying tools which enabled mankind to hobble along before the clarity of the scientific method for determining realities. Times have changed.
The Bible is nearly all drawn from paganism...Surface reading of the texts ignores the primitive and universal folk myths from which the Bible finds its origins. Its stories are these much older stories bent around Jewish and later Greek ideas dressed up and as holy imperatives and delivered for political cohesion. To imagine that it is God’s inerrant word is just ignorance, to believe so was socially acceptable in the past but today it no longer stands up to scientific scrutiny. It remains a very important collection of historical texts but to believe that it is from God is naive.
Forget the edicts of the past, move forward and base your judgement on knowable things...the Bible is on a par with fairy stories.
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LorenzoSmithXVII
Let me just comment on this blanket intellectual dismissal of the Bible as a myth. At this level of academic investigation, you have to actually DISPROVE anything in the Bible. There is a bad habit of presuming if no evidence is found by archaeologists for any event then that event didn't happen. That's not the case. The lack of confirmation doesn't dismiss the event, it just remains unproven.
So if someone can actually PROVE that Adam never had intercourse with Eve, then bring it on. Otherwise, simply doubting the story until proven is just a personal choice.
Otherwise, I'd focus on the anti-Biblical BIAS out there. There is lots of archaeological confirmation of the bible's timeline from the time of the Assyrian Period down to the Persian Period. Lots of specific individuals in the Bible are mentioned in the pagan records (i.e. the Mesha Stele, Shalmaneser II, Babylonian and Persian records, etc.) In fact, I recently discovered a statue of Nehemiah from the Persian Period. He can be seen all over Persepolis following behind Xerxes and Artaxerxes (same king!) as the cupbearer. He was a prominent figure in that court. It was very delightful to see that he was also sculpted and preserved in a statue.
But those bashing the Bible always go to those Biblical references that are highly controversial or that are too early in the timeline to be confirmed by pagan histories. The Israelites didn't become an important nation in Canaan until the time of Mereneptah, who mentions them. But nothing the Bible claims is contradicted by the archaeological evidence, it's just that the earlier periods in the history of the Israelites isn't recovered in ancient records. Point being, though, acknowledge when it IS supported! The history of the Israelites from the Assyrian Period down to the Persian Period is not questioned and is reflected in the pagan records. But naysayers don't like to talk about that. They would rather claim what lacks that same level of confirmation is a basis to believe the Bible's history is not reliable.
So, YES, let's get educated. But let's stop cherry-picking and lying.
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freemindfade
I agree with you. That was what woke me up. Weekly bible reading. Then questioning and researching, the realising the witnesses have molded the bible into a witness world. If you were raised in this is what you believe.
This is why I believe Caleb in floroda has some of the best info for crushing witness fantasies about the bible. I am a huge critic of what's in the bible and how dangerous it's ideas cab be. But people don't realise what it was and leave it like that as a cultural artifact of story telling and not the word of THEIR almighty god
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opusdei1972
"I am a huge critic of what's in the bible and how dangerous it's ideas cab be"
Of course, the Bible is dangerous when one considers it as the word of God.
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CalebInFloroda
Opusdei,
Actually the type of education and publications you mention already exist. They are the mainstay of basic Bible education in Roman Catholicism, mainstream Protestantism, and branches of Judaism such as Conservative and Reform.
The problem lies in the fact that the religion of the JW sometimes carries over into the lives of those who exit, and therefore ex-JWs live primarily in ignorance of the fact that the critical approach to Scripture is now the popular and generally accepted methodology to Bible study and exegesis. It can seem differently if we pay attention to Fundamentalist voices, but these are now in the minority and viewed even as too extreme to be a part of nominal academia.
The footnote apparatus of most new translations of Scripture since the 1960s has employed a critical approach. This is so of all current Catholic versions, most notably the Jerusalem and New Jerusalem Bibles, and the official Catholic translation in the USA, the NABRE. The study editions of the NRSV employ this approach as does the recently released ecumenical CEB study edition. Commentaries also have left behind the literal approach of Fundamentalists and the Watchtower. Collegeville commentaries for Catholicism are but one example.
Outside of Orthodox Judaism, the historical-critical method generally reigns, especially in Conservative and Reform approaches. It has been generations, in fact, since the Scriptures have been approached as literal among many Jews.
A visit to your neighborhood bookstore, signing up for a Bible study class at your nearby URJ temple or Catholic parish or a visit to Amazon.com to purchase one of the volumes mentioned above will suffice to show how dramatic the gap and difference exists between what the common Bible reader is exposed to and what the Watchtower often leaves JWs and some ex-JWs believing about the current state of Biblical study.
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CalebInFloroda
Postscript:
This Jewish boy is NOT recommending that you join up with the Catholic Church or adopt Christianity, by the way. If you are atheist or agnostic, you are beautiful just the way you are! I'm just stating that if you look, you will see that critical methodologies reign even at the most basic levels.
It's probably safer just shopping online, but you can even read some of this material for free online. The NABRE for example is available in full on the USCCB site, along with its critical notes (which while not difficult to understand, are highly complex and may require an introduction to the critical method because it is not provided). The NABRE throws you in without a flinch and it can be like being tossed into a freezing pool of water if you have no experience with critical Bible study.