Rmember, They Walk Among Us

by metatron 31 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  waiting

  In one of the books I read on this subject was a good quote I've always remembered.....however, I've forgotten the author, but it was a Psychologist speaking about Satanic Ritual Abuse.

  "If this phenomenon happened, it should be studied.

  If this phenomenon didn't happen, it should be studied."

  Hey Grits,

  Everyone wants explicit details of Pat's abuse NOW NOW NOW.

  I think more of it is trying to understand the phenomenon of SRA, or lack thereof. It's a tricky subject - one that many, many people don't believe because they conjur up images of demented people being Disciples of Satan, killing in the most disgusting ways animals, children & adults......all with no evidence.

  However, that's at the Total Right of the Spectrum - and not necessarily true. Total Left says that there is no Satan, no molesters using Satan, Hellfire, etc., as a control against young children who ardently believe in him - and that's not necessarily true either.

  I suggest that reality is somewhere in-between. Men/women have said much worse to control adults.....and it's much easier to control young children.

  We ALL believe that a molester can kill a child's pet as a lesson on silence. It's even seen as somewhat logical, in a perverted way. How many pets have actually been produced in a Court? At a police station as evidence of sexual abuse?

  But we believe it.......why? I think because it fits into the parameter of our belief system. We can envision it.

  waiting

  Edited by - waiting on 30 September 2002 17:50:32
• 

  Pork Chop

  Grits, there have been extensive investigations into SRA accusations. Some have gone on for months, even years, and yet not one has come up with anything. Is that absolute proof, no but it sure does point in that direction.

  The Media has been down this road before and it's unlikely they're going to bite on this one. My concern is that if anything, this allegation may be a step backward in the impact the march might have had.

  Waiting, the reason people believe is because they want to believe. That's fairly obvious from the reactions that are currently seen on this board.
• 

  abbagail

  PC: Let's hope Pat also gets to have an "extensive investigation into (her) SRA accusation" ... which takes months or years if necessary.

  What touches us is obviously different re: this case. Whether the media "bites on this one" is not my main concern. I am more concerned with the victim, how SHE feels, her recovery, her being validated, having her "day," etc.

  Of course, the media COULD make themselves useful re: this particular case by publicizing Pat's plea for her witnesses to come forward. If the media is not interested in helping in that regard, so be it. Pat and silentlamb supporters will have to think of other ways to locate those witnesses.

  Re: whether Pat's abuse account being told is a "step back" for silentlambs, why is everyone forgetting all of the other abuse accounts that were told? -- Also, I still say Pat deserves some encouragement for her courage to speak up, rather than all the criticizing. (repeating myself)

  Grits
• 

  Wren

  About the SRA in opening topic:

  Any horrific actions you can imagine, it's most likely been done including SRA for whatever purpose.

  On the other hand, SRA has been associated with nationwide/worldwide organized groups with massive amounts of members conspiring to demonize and/or abuse countless victims. This theory involving hundreds of thousands is generally viewed by the public as the stuff of tabloids. I share this view.

  Of the books & reports pro and con: the investigative researchers fact checking results was as scary as some of the published abuse articles. In particular, the Mike Warnke expose "Selling Satan". He helped start & prolong the scare in the 80's. He didn't differentiate storytelling from reality. He cashed in on his "ministry" in a big way while enjoying a double life.

  I read "He Came To Set the Captives Free" by Rebecca Bown a couple years ago and it scared the bejesus out of me. I read the investigative report about the author later. She was so whacked out on Demerol and delusions she lost her M.D. license due to prescribing large amounts of Demerol to "cure" people of demon possession.

  As for 'They walk among us', I could write many pages. Like your title. Let me toast to credibility fighting Wt abuses.

  Well, It's time for me to get out more.
• 

  Big Tex

  waiting

  You bring up an interesting point regarding SRA. This is difficult for me to write about so if it comes out a bit scattered, please forgive me. I have heard stories before of adults tricking children by using "Satan". One in particular I recall being told about was a group of adults who would tell the children (all under the age of 8) they were going to Hawaii. Well, "Hawaii" was simply another room in the house. One adult would be called "Satan". Another might be called "Mickey Mouse". One child finally told their parents about the abuse. The child quite truthfully told the story of how they went to Hawaii and met Satan who did bad things to them and then afterward they met Mickey Mouse. Obviously any adult hearing this story would think this just children making up a fantastic story. But the story was true.

  I don't know if this is the answer to every story of SRA. I do know that often, although not always, the children involved are quite young. Truthfully, how much do any of us remember of our lives before we were 8 years old? And if an adult presented himself as Satan (or anything else for that matter) a young child would not only believe, but also take it in at a deep psychological and emotional level. And when that child grew up, what kind of memories are there about that event? Humans are the only creatures on this planet that would think of ways to hurt and torture their young.
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  abbagail

  Big Tex, that was a good explanation of how these things MIGHT be explained. It reminded me of one of the most touching "Andy Griffith" shows I ever saw.

  Opie was pretty small in this show, cute as pie as everyone remembers. When he was out playing, he met a man with a "big silver hat" who "jingled when he walked" and who spent his time "up in the trees." So Opie tells his dad, Andy, about this neat man he met, and described him similar to the above.

  Well, the whole show was about Andy NOT believing Opie, and trying day after day to get Opie to admit he had made up the entire story of the man in the trees. And day after day Opie swore to his dad that the man was REAL and that Opie was NOT lying about it. I swear, it was one of the most bittersweet shows, because Andy was soooooo disappointed in Opie for not "coming clean" that it was all a fantasy, and Opie was soooooo hurt that his father was not believing him. Their relationship was really strained, painfully so.

  Andy was on the verge of punishing Opie for lying when he decided to go to the woods where Opie was playing to see what he might find out. And sure enough, Andy heard the "jingles" up in the "trees" and there was the man with the "big silver helmet." Come to find out, the mystery-man was either a telephone man or an electrician (I forget which). Andy was soooo relieved to learn his son was NOT lying, and he practically hugged the telephone man upon meeting him.

  The moral of the story was obvious.

  Grits
• 

  blondie

  I remember that episode very well, GRITS. Sometimes that facts of abuse are so gruesome that they are hard to believe. I can remember telling some people about growing up in my crazy family and they wouldn't believe me until my brothers told them the same story.

  Blondie
• 

  abbagail

  Hi Blondie: I know what you mean. Same thing happened in our family. My father's brother is a bona fide pedophile, yet I knew nothing about it until 30 years after the fact. It began to all "come out" around '87 when one of my brothers began calling my parents late at night (he lived in another state) to tell them what "JT" had been doing to him all his life. My parents did not believe my brother because, as they later said, he only called them when he was drinking. So two more years go by and my brother died at agge 35 in '89 (aneurysm). Then in early '92, my younger sister finally called my father to tell of the abuse she suffered at the hands of "JT." None of us knew my other brother had ever called our parents five years before. And the only reason my sister came forward was because of the emotional backlash she was having and her boyfriend encouraged her repeatedly to tell my father, she finally did. It was only THEN, with my sister's corroboration, that my parents believed my now-dead brother who died without ever having his abuse validated, which is what breaks my heart. --- After my sister came forward, my father called to tell me these things, and I freaked out because I was (unbeknownst to them) investigating my own abuse (by another person, not "JT"). When I learned about JT, I got on the phone that day and called all 6 remaining siblings and, sure enough, the pedophile uncle had gotten to all of them repeatedly over many years, and many cousins too, per my brothers. (I am the only one of the 8 kids in our family who has no memory of JT abusing me -- dare I suggest "repressed memories"? All I do have is a re-occurring dream that I used to have as a kid. Maybe someday I will write that out.)

  Anyway, went off the deep end there, but just wanted to say, sadly, one abused child is too often NOT believed, and this should NEVER BE THE CASE! Hence, I say loud and clear: ALWAYS BELIEVE THE VICTIM! (They may die before you get a chance to validate them.)

  Thanks blondie.
  Grits
• 

  DakotaRed

  Grits and Blondie. One important part of that episode you missed. Before going to the woods and as he was about to punish Opie, little Opie sadly looked at Andy and said, "Pa, don't you believe me?" That's when he decided to just let it slide and went to the woods, where we all know, he finally met Mr. McBeevey.

  I'm still seeking Mayberry, by the way.

  In the same regard, I feel Pat's story, even as fantastic as it sounds, deserves the same support and personal attacks on her were out of line. Could her memory of events be clouded and exaggerated? Yes, of course. In the same respect, it all could have actually happened even worse than she recalled. That is why I feel an investigation and seeking out the witnesses she asked to come forward is merited.

  In the mean time, neither her nor Jaracz need be dragged over the coals here over this matter. Let the proper authorites handle it. It is obvious that she suffered some severe psychosis long ago associated with something. She will not be permitted to heal by all the name calling and ridicule she has endured thus far.

  Lew W
• 

  blondie

  My father molested all of us kids. We never talked to each other about it until we were in our 30's! Each one thought they were the only one. Such a familiar story. We are in differing stages of recovery or self-destruction. JWs can't talk about such nasty topics or darn few can. I have been seeing a counselor for several years and have progressed to helping others. I have to admit reading Jesika's story brought back things very clearly. The difference is that if my situation had reached that point, I would have killed my father.

  I remember seeing a true-life account movie of a brother and sister who conspired to kill the abusive father which they did. They both ended up in prison, but not sad about it. The night it aired, my oldest brother called and said "That could have been us; that could have been us."

  As far as Satan worship, I can see people scaring children with that to make them more compliant to abuse. It doesn't mean the adults necessarily are really worshiping Satan.

  My father still roams the congregations with only a few elders knowing the true situation. I don't hesitate to tell as many elders as I can in a nonchalant way. I warn families as well as so far it hasn't backfired on me.

  The last time he visited my congregation he saw me and literally ran out of the KH. It gave me a warm feeling to think that now my father was frightened of me, instead of the other way around.