by qwerty 121 Replies latest jw friends
Simon,
Yeah - I think I am saying the same as you on those points. I could be wrong.
The problem could be the present "apparent" support of WTS policy.
But to even start discussing that "apparent" problem, I and likely you would need concrete direct evidence (like the actual person(s) Ray told this too) or something in writing from Ray.
Just my thoughts.
hawk
he has more than once told many people that he sees no problem with WT policy on abuse. In my opinion he is covering up for something he does not wish to reveal.
I dont believe it. Not one bit.
his silence regarding abuse causes me to question his ability to stand for what is morally and ethically right.
Utter bullshit. You really need to cut the increasingly wild and negative moral characterizations, Bill. I could be wrong bu it seems to me that you are losing your humanity bit by bit.
Is Ray Great or What?
silentlambs
Edited by - silentlambs on 9 October 2002 23:10:43
Well...why not Bill? He stepped in it now let him clean it off!! Come one Bill lets hear why you never/spoke up against all the other atrocious bullshit that goes on in JWland like shunning, ruining families, refusing blood transfusions, Mexico/Malawi fiasco, owning parts of a military manufacturing firm, the UN issue, no transplants, twisting the bible...while you were an elder? shall I go on? Please do tell us...I for one will be waiting for a good answer. You have reported to the media that the only reason you were disfellowshipped is your stance on the pedophilia issue...is it that you remained silent about all those other issues because they don't matter to you or you would simply look the other way and still be an active worshipper/elder of Jehovah regarless of all those glaring moral dillemas? hmmm?
SIncerely,
District Overbeer
I may be wrong (someone correct me if I am!) but to my knowledge Ray doesnt have much to do with exjw issues anymore apart from his books. And why should he, everyone has to move on and get one with their lives, even people who have been high profile members. Yes he may have made mistakes while he was in (lots of people have ) but I think he has done his best to make up for them by helping so many out after him.
He exposed so many issues in his books - if he did know anything about child abuse do you not think that, that would have been exposed too?
Edited to add
He is an old man in poor health - it doesnt suprise me that he doesnt want to be involved in a big battle against the WT at this time of his life he has done that already.
Edited by - angharad on 9 October 2002 15:25:20
Edited by - angharad on 9 October 2002 16:30:42
Does anyone else see the contradiction here:
he has more than once told many people that he sees no problem with WT policy on abuse
compared to
his silence regarding abuse
Now, has he said something ... or hasn't he. He can't do both. Don't say he's guilty for saying things and then tell me he's also guilty because he hasn't said anything.
I don't think he deserves to be hassled by lots of people. I also think his response would depend entirely on how he was approached (going off how I would respond)
I got up late today, have a cold, checked for mail and WoW...I'm wide awake now And still dijesting this. going to make coffee to go with my DayQuil and re-read it.
From: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 11:58:37 AM
Subject: [SILENTLAMBS_MARCH] Ray Franz and Silentlambs
Bill Bowen stated this on JWD:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=38277&site=3Ray Franz supports the WT policy on child abuse. He is the author of the two eye witness rule as well as the slander issue that prevents anyone from warning another of child abuse in the congregation. It is interesting that WT is willing to fight to the last man standing for a policy that in large part was founded by their biggest apostate.
Ray Franz is no friend to silentlambs, he makes no effort to support child abuse survivors, he has more than once told many people that he sees no problem with WT policy on abuse. In my opinion he is covering up for something he does not wish to reveal.
He wrote a book that was dynamic in what it reveals, but his silence regarding abuse causes me to question his ability to stand for what is morally and ethically right.
I know this is an emotionally charged issue for many. But we have laws here in the United States. Those laws state that a co-conspirator who does not LEAVE the conspiracy and TURN AROUND and WORK against the conspiracy is GUILTY of the same crime, and CAN and SHOULD be subjected to the same punishment. Under these laws, Ray Franz SHOULD be serving time alongside Belize and Fitzwater.
NOT because he WROTE the 'confrontation' policy or the 'two witness' policy (which he admits he did see second page of Chapter two of Crises of Conscience the footnotes) but becasue he never LEFT the conspiracy and TURNED AROUND and WORKED against the conspiracy, this is what the laws of our land require.
Ray Franz could not POSSIBLY NOT know about the rapes and murders of children in the Watchtower. He had inside information on events in the GB for the whole time he was there and even into the 1990's long after he was gone.
I understand he will be getting phone calls about this issue and I wait with bated breath for his reply.
In Ray FRanz's defense tho, the policies that he wrote in teh 1972 Organized book were set out in 1957 almost word for word. I would love to know who wrote that book. Ray Franz went to Bethel and joined the writing staff around that time. No one has ever come forth to claim credit for the 'Lamp' book publicly that I could find and I guess NOW nobody ever WILL. <sigh>
Oh, give it a rest already. Leave the old man alone. It was Ray's book that brought me OUT of the borg, not SilentLambs. I find your comment unbalanced to say the least.
I will stand back and wait to be flamed until I am ashes, but to be blunt I don't care.
Edited by - MrMoe on 9 October 2002 15:26:1
Is Ray Great of What?
silentlambs
Edited by - silentlambs on 9 October 2002 23:11:52
