Ray Franz Key Witness?! (page 7)

IslandWoman

Amanda,

I think Ray Franz may be already getting calls. I tried a number of his and it is busy, busy.

IW

Pathofthorns

Simon,

You have not tolerated *personal attacks* on Bill or Silentlambs by persons in the past. Are you tolerating *personal attacks* on Ray Franz just because who is making them?

Ray has no online presence and is in many respects the "holy grail" of the xjw community. He was a GB member and therefore harmed persons, however he has possibly helped more persons out of the cult than anyone. These attacks are unacceptable and your response is the equivelent of making excuses and turning a blind eye - and that's hypocrisy.

Had Fred Hall or You Know or any pro JW person made these statements he'd be looking at being banned, and you know it.

Path

AMNESIAN

I certainly don't believe that Ray (or anybody else, for that matter) should be pestered into endorsing/supporting any cause toward which s/he is not conscientiously inclined (nor be denigrated for that disinclination), however, I would stop short of agreeing with:

I think you are missing the point that he is in his (late?) 80's and I would hope putting the whole JW thing behind him for what little of his life is left.

He obviously has not put "the whole JW thing" behind him. His several and recent "new" editions to Crisis of Conscience will bear that out.

AMNESIAN

Edited by - AMNESIAN on 9 October 2002 17:10:52

bigboi

I don't blame Ray Frantz for not geting involved in the Silentlambs movement. The child abuse issue is too volatile and based too much on emotion. I'm all for Silentlambs and giving victims of abuse a voice and all the support they need. However any movement that goes beyond that without a clear objective or the right guidance will end up hurting rather than helping survivors of abuse.

Simon

path: I appreciate your concern but all the way through this thread I have been pointing out why I think Bill is wrong in what he said. I think there is more danger (in this case at least) in letting people see an accusation and then deleting it (so it becomes accepted) than in letting people reply to it and dispute it.

Edited by - Simon on 9 October 2002 17:3:6

MrMoe

IW -- Are you SERIOUS? Oh God D*mn it people, leave him ALONE!!!! No WONDER he doesn't make any statement...

nuts nuts nuts nuts nuts

I tell you what, if anybody here gives the guy a heart attack... over an message board...

I give up. This is just plain nutso.

jst2laws

DJ,

Why do you assume that Bill is lying? What if he is right? Ray has done some wonderful writing to help us xjw's, I agree but Ray is also only a man just like Bill
It is wrong to simply discredit what Bill said, simply because we do not know otherwise..

But we do know enough facts. I flat disagree with the way Bill has represented Ray's stand and responsibility for even contributing to the problem. This is not conjecture but the result of talking at length with Ray. Bills statements discredit Bill.

Now we have countless people questioning Ray's integrity and demand an explanation or some evidence to his innocence and this all ridiculous. All this because a high profile XJW will not get on the bandwagon.

The more this discussion goes on the more evidence of uncalled for damage to the reputation of another good man who should not have been drug through the mud on this issue.

Jst2laws

IslandWoman

Bill Bowen has chosen to raise himself above other respected members of the xJW community. On what basis does he do so?

He keeps making posts on this thread but does not answer questions.

Valis and others have asked good questions yet Bill Bowen remains silent. Why is that? Is he above answering the questions of those who post here?

IW

riz

i would really hope that people are not calling ray. like amanda and others have said, the guy is a fossil for pete's sake. leave him alone already. christ!

valis and reborn, i'm with you. talk about straws and rafters!

bluesapphire

Maybe Ray Franz doesn't want to get involved in Silentlambs because he doesn't like Bill Bowen's approach. I know I would tell Bill Bowen where he can stick it if he called me and ordered me to "readjust my thinking" just because I didn't agree with him!

Ray Franz Key Witness?!

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