Christmas Aint Jesus's Birthday

by comforter 94 Replies latest jw friends

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Comforter,

    Apparently you're unaware of the historical roots of 25 December being celebrated as the Feast of the Nativity. It was not raised to REPLACE the pagan feast of Sol Invictus, rather it was raised IN OPPOSITION to the pagan cult. The christian perspective was if the pagans want to celebrate the Unconquered Sun, we as Christians will celebrate the Unconquered SON.

    Comforter,

    The passover, which you celebrate as a dinner party where no one gets to eat, also has pagan roots. More History, less Watchtower.

    Jesus did NOT come back in 1914, think about that as you celebrate the Memorial. If he DID come back then STOP celebrating the Memorial as we are told to celebrate UNTIL HE COMES.

    EDITED TO SAY: Besides, Christians don't claim Christmas is Jesus' birthday, but rather a time to reflect on the fact that Jesus CAME and WILL COME again. And to celebrate that fact that God became Man.

    Edited by - Yerusalyim on 11 October 2002 10:2:57

  • SixofNine
    SixofNine

    Paganism is most certainly NOT the darkness. Paul said alot of stupid things. duncomfluf would do well to give up in his mission to follow Paul perfectly, as Paul was perfectly pathetic.

  • Robdar
    Robdar
    You dont need to set aside a false religious day to show kindness to others. Recall them Israelites that had a festival to Jehovah in the wilderness? their festival to God was really a party for the demons.

    Comforter,

    You are right about that. Any day is a good day to show kindness to others.

    However, I do not need to be unkind on December 25 either. Christmas is the one day a year that my family, friends and I all have off from work. Just because you choose to be stingy with the love on Christmas, doesn't mean that I make the same choice.

    December 25 is only what you make of it. If I choose to love God and family on this day, how can Satan or the demons have anything to do with it? It sort of defeats their purpose, don't you think? "A house divided can not stand....."

    If you choose to think of demons on December 25, who are you really giving your power to?

    Comforter,

    I appreciate it that you are concerned about us. But in this case, your concern is misplaced. Celebrating Christmas will not interfere with our salvation.

    You really should try it sometimes. The joy you feel can only do you good.

    Love,

    Robyn

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman
    Neon

    You taking Romans 14 out of context. That verse is saying that days approved by God under the Mosaic law may be judged the same or special. still, no one should impute any saving religious importance to those days. You can find this out in Galatians 4:8-11.

    No, I'm doing no such thing. If I am, please point out the "context" that I have ignored in Romans. I included the surrounding verses in my quote specifically so that I could not be accused of taking it out of context. But go ahead, read the whole chapter, and the ones surrounding it, too. What you claim it says is not in there.

    You've given the standard Watchtower response to this scripture, which is to say that Paul was writing only about Jewish holy days, even though there is no contextual evidence that that is what he was talking about. The Watchtower has to advance this sort of argument, because the scriptures, read as written, do not support their teachings. Nothing unusual there.

    You are correct in saying that in Galatians, Paul is discussing the Jewish festivals. But a quotation from Galatians does not serve as "context" for a passage in Romans. There is absolutely no indication in Romans that Paul was discussing only days celebrated under the Law; he was writing in much broader terms in Romans than in Galatians.

    Remember, Galatians was written specifically to strengthen the Christians against the teachings of Judaizers, who wanted to enforce the traditions of the law within the Christian church. It was appropriate in that context for Paul to take the broad principle stated in Romans 14, and make specific application of it to the situation facing the Galatians. But that does not mean that the principle as stated in Romans is confined to that one application.

    To put it simply, in Romans, Paul states a general principle - that each one should act within his own conscience and honor the Lord in either the celebrating, or not celebrating, of certain days. In Galatians, he applies that principle to a specific case that the Galatians were facing.

  • NeonMadman
    NeonMadman

    As a side point to my comments above:

    The logical implication of your argument regarding Romans 14 is that it is a matter of Christian conscience whether one wishes to observe the Passover, days of unleavened bread, Pentecost, Purim, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles and Feast of Dedication. Would it therefore be acceptable today for one of Jehovah's Witnesses to celebrate these occasions? After all, you have just argued (as the Watchtower also argues) that those are the days Paul was talking about in Romans 14; surely there could be no objection?

    Edited by - NeonMadman on 11 October 2002 10:19:26

  • DJ
    DJ

    hi Comforter,

    Do you really believe that the Creator of the heavens and the earth will jugde based on the celebration of Christmas day or not? I don't. If you do, that's fine. That is your conviction based upon the watchtower's beliefs. It is wrong to impose your personal convictions upon another who is free in Christ. You cannot sear my conscience with your guilt. It would be appreciated if you would stop judging who I choose to spend December 25th. I do not tell you that you must celebrate it. It is out of joy and gratitude that we celebrate the account of the birth of our Savior as shown in Luke 2. I worship my Lord, just as the angels did. This is not for you to judge.

    If the actual day of this celebration is troublesome to you, I would suggest that you pray about it. If Jesus was born in October then December would have been the month when the Holy Spirit came to Mary and she conceived Jesus. That is when life truly begins, is it not?

    If you are terribly concerned with our spiritual welfare, I would expect that your presence on this forum would be out of love for us. It does not appear to be that way. You seem more caught up in rivalry. I am saddened for you. There is no law against love, it is upon love that the law is based. You are not to judge what my love is. You are not God. I choose to leave my life in the hands of God based on loving his Son. You choose to leave your life based on following watchtower rules. I don't agree that the bible teaches that salvation can be earned. Undeserved kindness is not deserved. Salvation is a free gift. Come on, even your transations says that.

    You didn't answer my question a while ago, I asked if you would discuss the blood doctrine of the jw's with me? If you are not interested that's ok. Love in Christ, Dj

  • Yerusalyim
    Yerusalyim

    Comforter,

    THe context of Romans 14 is clearly NOT speaking of Jewish Festivals and Holidays. More than half the Christian population of Rome was NOT Christian. Vegetarianism, mentioned earlier, was not one of the Jewish tenets.

  • Francois
    Francois

    Yerusalyim - with all the coming and going and going and coming no wonder the guy didn't have any children...too busy being jerked here and there.

    But really, all this knit picking is not necessary. For one thing, there are only two laws that Jesus left us with. You know what they are: Love God with a whole soul and your neighbor as yourself. That's it! No other laws do you need to observe.

    And their weren't no pagans until after the Catholics killed 'em all off - meanin' that THEY got to write the history of those times. And of course they did it up purple. Said pagans sacrificed babied, had sex orgies, said that jews had little teeny tiny horns growin outta they haids. They carried on somethin' awful about the jews. Also said that their favorite Yom Kippur food had to be made with the blood of a gentile child or it wouldn't come out right. Blood from a young jewess virgin under the age of 6 was best and easier to find than, say, blood from a young jewess virgin just past puberty. And I have noticed it's easier to find a jewess who has been, um, DE-virginized many, many times than one who has only been de-virginized only one time. Wonder why that is? Anyway...

    I think we make our religion too complex. God put us here to have a life, have fun, love him, love each other, especially if the other is of the opposite persuasion, and then go tell him about it. We ain't here to jump through first this hoop and then this other hoop dreamed up by slobbering old bastards in Brooklyn, Rome, Mecca or anywhere else who're too damn old to have any fun any more and so the selfish bastards don't want us have none either. Screw 'em, I allus say. Joke 'em of they can't take a fecund.

    francois

  • comforter
    comforter

    yeru

    the facts of history are that the day of unconquered sun was given a christian label. that don't change a thing. God never told nobody to protest against a pagan day with another day. Jesus never told no one to celebrate his birth. regardless of what you say, people of christendom do celebrate Jesus's birth on December 25. And God never became a man. That is what we can call a myth.

    Robin

    I have celebrated Christmas. Some days were fun and others were not. None of them had Christ in it. And you know that Christmas is based on lotsa lies like such as Santa and rudolf. Why wait until december 25 to buy gifts fer your relatives and friends? the nameless one buys gifts for his family at different times of the year. the nameless one is kind to people everyday. dont need no christmas to do that. Christmas is also heavily commercialized. you just enriching Satan's commercial world.

    Neon

    Paul did not have christmas in mind. he didnt know what it was. The context is about the relationship between jews and gentiles. why you think Romans 14:1, 2 say about eating vegetables or not eating them? Paul talking about jewry.

    the nameless one

  • fluttergirl2
    fluttergirl2

    nameless one...

    Clearly everyone in the room thinks your an idiot. The fact that you can't even use anything close to proper grammar is not helping your situation either. I mean, my God, I was raised in the south too, but even I have the sense to shut up when I clearly look stupid.

    I came here because I knew that folks like you wouldn't be here to argue. Go back to your "kingdom hall"...

    fluttergirl2

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