Post by Ray Franz (page 8)

gsark

Valis and others:

Your issues are your issues. Perhaps some people DO care more about Bill Bowen or Ray Franz than they do about silent lambs.

But my issue is this, I have said it before and i will say it again:

All I care about are the silent lambs. That's all I have cared about since I went to Ritzville in 2001, an experienced which left me a changed person with a new outlook on life. I have had the privilege of meeting some 50 or 60 silent lambs, and their courage and their strength will inspire me untill the end of my days.

Once these incredible men and women were stifled, battered, abused, ignored, depersonalized; well, for me as long as I have breath they are, and will be:

SILENT NO MORE.

Valis

Uh dungbeetle...what in the hell does any of the last two or three of your posts have to do with this topic? What relevance does it have to one poster here acting like a jackass and using this forum exclusively to post here and ne're a word about any of the other issues? Duh do you not get it? Go post another thread about how you have seen the silent lambs ignored or abused....None of that comes from here unless its from the trolls and if you think that healthy skepticism is a bad thing then I feel for you and want to know if you would be interested in a home bible study.

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

Farkel

: Why did Ray feel the need to commincate that post through amazing-has something else occured?

Ray doesn't use the Internet. I trust Amazing totally. If he said what he presented was from Ray, then it was from Ray. Period.

Farkel

gsark

Rolling on the floor laughing my *** off at Francois:

This is beginning to take on the flavor of the Rayites vs the Billites and vice-versa, and my guy can whip your guy

bwahahahahaha <sputter> <choke>

Anyway, in answer to Valis' question,

Uh dungbeetle...what in the hell does any of the last two or three of your posts have to do with this topic?

some of my posts are in response to the posts of others. For reasons I cannot begin to fathom, at least 9 different posters on three different threads on two different discussion boards have made recent comments about my loyalties and affiliations and I have decided to comment back.

I hope my time and energy on THAT very narrow issue has been helpful TO THOSE INDIVIDUALS who have expressed an interest in the matter.

Hugs to you all.

bluesapphire

I for one don't think Ray had any obligation whatsoever to answer to any of Bill's accusations. And he has the right to choose not to be involved in Bill's organization without being criticised.

That being said, I don't think Bill should have accused Ray of anything on this forum and he definitely needs to apologize publicly. And apologizing in a sincere way, not one smacking of dubism.

Then I hope for the sake of the silentlambs, Bill can recover his credibility and we can move on. This is getting old already.

Valis

Goddamit! look...the work that Bill does is to say the least outstanding and is most appreciated by everyone, but I would bring one analogy to mind just to get to the heart of the matter. Say for instance, I was a social worker or vollunteer for an org that did excellent work for the abused. When I was at work I shone like a bright star, but when I talked to people in person/a public forum about my opinion and what I really thought, I said things that pissed off lots of colleagues and supporters. Think a bit before you answer or sass, but my point is that a personal apology does not have to be one that is representative of the cause or those that are part of the cause. It only needs be something sincere and to the audience that supports him.

Sincerely,

District Overbeer

kenpodragon

Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that we sometimes want to think that all people in leadership should be perfect, and then get frustrated or upset when they are not. When in reality we should be upset with ourselves for letting anyone hold the leadership position in our minds again.

Silentlambs to me, does some good and helps some people. I stress "some", as abuse is far larger then the scope they look at.

Ray Franz to me, does some good and helps some people. I stress "some", as cover-ups in cult religion is a far larger then the scope it looks at.

Basically, if their cause means something to you. NEVER NEVER NEVER see them as your leader. Go out and do things on your own for the cause, and don't feel any obligation to be anything like them. When I read about these men, I think "sounds like a good cause and they are doing things to help people." Yet if they asked me to help them with their cause, I would say "no thanks, I have my own ideas on how things should be done and they do not concur with yours, but good luck in your efforts anyway."

Maybe we should just take both less serious to the point that we do not argue for months about what either one says. I just feel they should keep their thoughts between each other, and I think Bill owes the board a apology for getting others involved that had no business in knowing.

My thought

Dragon

wednesday

Is Ray Franz Great or What?

Oct 9, 2002 23:07

Master Member

United States of America
Posts: 752
Since: Feb 5, 2001 Advertisement

Jesus-God or the Son of God? A Comparison of the Arguments
Holt, Brian
~~$19.99~~ $15.00 This evening I had a nice conversation with Ray and we discussed our previous conversation. While our previous conversation was remembered differently in certain areas we agreed that we should be peaceful with one another, I apologized for any misunderstanding and decided as a result to remove any negative comments made about him. I do believe our discussion was productive and will help us both to be more supportive of one another in the future. Ray is a good man and I certainly appreciate the effort he has put forth to help so many.

Is Ray great or what?

I found this post by bill, in which he jsays he talked to ray. This should be enough.

wednesday

well,my cut and paste did not work as it should . They HAVE clearned the air,so why are we still discussing it?

Edited by - wednesday on 24 October 2002 22:17:18

Trauma_Hound

You know it comes down to this, what is more important? Protecting children, or getting JW's out of the org?

Post by Ray Franz

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