Post by Ray Franz (page 9)

Mulan

Is Ray great or what?

How many times did he say that? Several times.

Edited to remove a comment I made. Sorry to have added to the flame wars.

Edited by - mulan on 25 October 2002 0:31:12

gsark

edited twice because I don't dare say what I think.

Hugs to all of you who have NOT poured 'gasoline' on the 'flames'.

May all the silent lambs in the world sleep well tonight and have a good day tomorrow.

This lambs' supporter is:

SILENT NO MORE

xenawarrior

Perhaps the problem lies in the fact that we sometimes want to think that all people in leadership should be perfect, and then get frustrated or upset when they are not. When in reality we should be upset with ourselves for letting anyone hold the leadership position in our minds again.

Kenpo:

With all due respect, there is a huge amount of room between perfection and slandering the character of another.

I'm not going to be upset with myself for expecting a leader, who wants the support of the public, to find a place somewhere in between those two extremes. If they can't or won't do that on a consistent basis- in my book they don't qualify as a leader.

XW

Trauma_Hound

And what exactly has ray done for people, and what has Bill done for people?

kenpodragon

I'm not going to be upset with myself for expecting a leader, who wants the support of the public, to find a place somewhere in between those two extremes. If they can't or won't do that on a consistent basis- in my book they don't qualify as a leader.

Xena

It just seems that a lot of people are upset because it is coming down to two camps, with two leaders. I was just saying, neither one is worth being a leader in our lives. I think the fact that it has gone on this long proves it. With Ray asking to have something posted here, was no different then the thought of silentlambs posting something about him. I think they should keep it between themselves. Anything else shows a lack of class.

By the way, I like when people disagree with me. It teaches me things about myself.

Take Care

Dragon

Edited by - kenpodragon on 24 October 2002 22:49:0

silentlambs

I am sad Ray and Jim have chosen to pursue this. All those scriptures and all that history just because you are pissed off and wish to justify your attack on me. For those of you reading this, you must understand I have no "camp", I have no following for Bill Bowen, nor do I wish to. From day one I stood up to protect children and support abuse survivors. "silentlambs" is not an anti-JW organization, many JW's support silentlambs along with many who have other beliefs. I have never asked anyone to support me, I have always asked everyone to support abuse survivors and protect children. If anyone has ever misunderstood that then they should have asked me about it, I would have been glad to clarify that in no uncertain terms.

When I wrote the original comments I could have explained them further, at the same time I was preparing for a trip to Germany to help some there and as we speak are working on several media opportunities to give several abuse survivors a chance to tell their stories. It is a higher purpose than trying to prove an 80 year old man wrong. I thought my energy could be better spent helping silent lambs rather than trying to preserve my personal credibility. So as a result of that decision I made the post above and took down all comments I had made relating to this issue. I decided to give Ray the benefit of the doubt, though I remember quite clearly the context of our conversation, I would simply apologize for any musunderstanding and make peace.

While I was trying to help silent lambs it appears Ray and Jim had a lot of free time. I am going to think about this a few days and while I do I would like to leave Ray and Jim with one scripture. Romans 14:19, "So, then, let us pursue peace and the things that are upbuilding to one another."

Perhaps all on the board might want to consider that thought.

silentlambs

Edited by - silentlambs on 25 October 2002 3:47:51

Mulan

Bill, I sent you an email.

I will always want you as a friend, and will always support Silentlambs. This whole thing has gotten out of hand. Many things have been said, by many people, that shouldn't have been said. Apologies are necessary.

wednesday

Bill,

it has been settled for some time .Dragon is right, sometimes people just like to talk.

i am so grateful for your web site-yesterday i had the courage to identify my abuser. I never thought i would see the day when i could do that. Somehow the WTBS has to change its policy on how they deal with persons who commit CRIMES.It will probably have to hit them in the pocket book before they do, but they have to see they are hurting children. Thank u for helping all those abused to regain some of their life.

DannyBear

***I am sad Ray and Jim have chosen to pursue this. All those scriptures and all that history just because you are pissed off and wish to justify your attack on me.***

An attack on you??? Did I miss something here?

Ray used some scriptures, so did you.

"lots of time on thier hands"???

I have lost all respect for you Bill Bowen.

Danny

Beck_Melbourne

Whoever cast the first stone should at least allow the defence to have their say. I do believe Ray Franz has had his say. He was entitled to that, no matter how old he is.

We can now take from it what we will.

~Beck~

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