Need advice on a comeback to my wife: when she is in cult mode she says faith without works is dead.

by goingthruthemotions 40 Replies latest jw experiences

  • Odrade
    Odrade

    I think this is one of the things that keeps JWs locked in. They have absolutely no comprehension of the concept of Grace. They truly believe that they can never be worth of God's love, but at the same time, God expects them to earn his love - the love that they can never be worthy of, even when they are working hard to earn it. Etc, etc, etc. It's the most pernicious example of circular reasoning, and I believe it derails their ability to think critically. 

    It's not unique to JWs, this subversion of Grace, most of the high control groups teach the same or similar, that you must prove your devotion and earn your salvation. It's quite incompatible with the concepts of Christ-centered christianity, although wholly in line with Pauline Christianity. 

  • goingthruthemotions
    goingthruthemotions

    Thanks everyone for the comments...i do agree, that the faith without works is one of the manipulative things the dubs use to control the sheeple.

    it's such a sad thing to see when you wake up and learn TTATT. very frustrating.


    worse mistake of my life was joining this cult....if i could turn back time!


    shalom

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    As you rightly say, JW's read into the Text what the WT/JW want them to see, but a reading of the Letter of James without WT Specs on shows that he is mainly talking of Works done within the Congregations, not proselytising.

    The verse quoted by Splash above is pertinent, 1v27,  and of course would apply to good works done for non-christians too, but James talks mainly about what is done for those within, "if you see a brother or sister naked or hungry....".

    Nowhere is he talking plainly about making converts as the "works" that prove ones faith.

    J.W's need to stop taking verses out of context, and they need to learn to start doing as James says, especially in 1v27, all their door knocking and Meeting attendance means nothing without it.

  • stan livedeath
    stan livedeath

    .well shat about all the christians


    a typo --i presume ?

  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    JWs do all kinds of "good works" for their fellow man. And, just like Christ's return, their works are invisible!

    just saying!

    eyeuse2badub

  • eyeuse2badub
    eyeuse2badub

    The wtbts doesn't even properly care for the older DO's, CO's and missionaries much less for any "widows and orphans". 

    Jesus once said (supposedly) "if you do it to the least of these my brothers, you do it to me". So think about it, How does the wtbts provide/take care of the older "widowed, orphaned" anointed ones. The wtbts doesn't even know who the anointed are (maybe a few 'biggies' in and around NYC), but they sure as h**l know every CO, DO, pioneer, missionary, etc. So who is more important to the wtbts? It's a joke!

    just saying!

    eyeuse2badub

  • Vanderhoven7
    Vanderhoven7

    The Pharisees went way out of their way to recruit people...but only served to make them 2 fold children of hell. 

    Mat 23:15  Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. 

    False Faith spreading a false message is of no merit. 

  • andrekish
    andrekish

    This may sound flippant so please ignore if inappropriate.

    Never having lived with any Witnesses I can image you've already tried this though,

    Perhaps another approach could be to explain that that method of communication, door-to-door, is scaring people. This method of delivery of message hardly works. I wonder if their governing body can accept that the world has modernised and door-to-door canvassing is causing people to think they are mad.

    Three million people were motivated to march in Paris after a few days. Objectively, the activity of getting any kind of message out there has to keep up with the times. The Witnesses who I have seen standing in the High Streets in the UK have had much more success, but still end up with a pile of litter nearby.

    Canvassing in this way is not the best use of evangelising time, Paris was. This makes me wonder how effective their marketing strategies are. Opinion only but they only get 1 out of 10 here for marketing. If people won't talk to them because they believe they are odd in their evangelising then they will not even get to begin to explain the message they are entrusted with.

    But I admire everyone who tries so my very best wishes to both of you, and perhaps to your wife, don't give up trying because you mean well.

    In conclusion, faith without effective works is rather pointless if sin is not doing your best. If the governing body can't see this then maybe it's time to retire them to a nursing home and let some people do it properly, eh? Just because they ain't dead yet doesn't make every word they say true. Sometimes it's easy to stick one's religious head up one's religious rectum and not see the light of God, eh, you miserable old farts over there in HQ? I'm not trying to defend Jehovah's people from any one here. I'm trying to defend Jehovah from his people who've gone insane. They have the message to mankind correct but they've gone and got the rules a bit confused.

  • sowhatnow
    sowhatnow

    my mom gets me with that all the time! omg.

    I doubt seriously, that  those 'works' spoken of in scripture, are not the same that jws refer to obviously. so,

    i try to explain it to her this way

    what we  do personally , to give a good example to everyone we know or meet that will give them a favorable view of us,  in the end,  results in a favorable view of the god who produces persons with such good works .

    it has no boundary to a named faith, its not about religious works, which usually are done for the reason of getting noticed,   which were  spoken of in the scriptures as not having meaning. let your right hand not know what your left is doing ect ect.

      all people of all walks of life do 'good' works, otherwise none of us would be here.

  • _Morpheus
    _Morpheus

    What is so interesting, as several others have commented, is that in his discussion of faith needing works, james never once mentioned the door to door ministry or ANY ministry for that matter.  In that second chapter as he was making his case, james refered to men of faith and how their faith moved them to act but never once even suggested a sharing of faith as that act.  As someone noted already, he did talk about taking of orphans and widows though :) 

    sadly, all of this will fall deaf on the ears of average dubbies.  Its abput them seeing what was preprogrammed for their eyes....

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