Need advice on a comeback to my wife: when she is in cult mode she says faith without works is dead. (page 3)

James Mixon

So does it mean we need works to help our faith or that our faith

is incomplete without works.

Acts, Romans and Mark states just believe and you will be saved.

JW's only see by knocking on doors they will be saved or standing

at their stands looking weird..

As others have mention, your faith should move you to do good for

others. It doesn't mean waking people up on a Sat. morning.

Their faith is based solely on door knocking, forget the hungry,needed and

as Morpheus and other mention the orphans and widows..

Jonathan Drake

I would try using the account beginning at Acts 9:36 about Dorcas.

Dorcas is praised in the bible for her, "fine works." But these works are clearly spelled out for us in these verses and they absolutely do not include preaching. Yet it was for these Christian works that she was praised in the bible, resurrected, and left as an example to follow in Christian works. Why, if the works only partain to preaching, would the bible leave us an example of works to follow that includes no preaching at all?

I've used this approach myself, and they never have an answer for me. So it must get them thinking.

cappytan

I think the group here has the right idea. I would just approach it gently.

Perhaps just say, "I agree. James was correct. Can you show me from the context of where he said this what works he was referring to?"

JWdaughter

I keep hearing these kinds of things from folks married to JW drones and just from my experience with those in the org or any kind of fundy mindset-reasoning only works in your head. Don't let it get to you. Smile,, nod and go on to some other subject or they will make you as crazy as they are.

There is no "comeback" for cluelessness, denial or insanity. Comebacks are just the great lines we think of after it is too late to deliver them. It's pointless to try to change their minds when they are in cult mode, there are no effective words. Just talk to her like a real human when she is in THAT mode.

quest81

Interesting comments here.

GTTM: Do you have a copy of In Search of Christian Freedom? Raymond Franz's book addresses the JWs on this in Chapters 6 & 7 "Salvation, by Faith, NOT Works" and "From House to House" respectively.

The underlying sentiment is how human standards and legalism are the only true forces behind JW field service. What I found of great benefit is how Franz shows why JWs do the door to door even though it goes contrary to what the early Christians likely did. At the end of that chapter one will see how manipulative FS is and how it really is a method for control & burdening (as is JW dogma in general).

I recommend you get and read this book as a historical reference. It's gives background into a lot of JW practices.

Separation of Powers

Ephesians 2:9- Written by the Apostle Paul...."For it is by grace you have been saved through faith and this is not from ourselves, it is the gift of God...NOT BY WORKS, so that no one can boast."

There it is...clear as crystal. Works will NOT save you. You can work all you like....it is futile....

OneEyedJoe

Stumbled upon this while putting together a reply for another thread. Here's what I'd used to rebut any claim that faith without works is dead and works=preaching.

1 Timothy 5:9,10 (JW "bible") -

9 A widow is to be put on the list if she is not less than 60 years old, was the wife of one husband, 10 having a reputation for fine works, if she raised children, if she practiced hospitality, if she washed the feet of holy ones, if she assisted the afflicted, if she devoted herself to every good work.

Just read that and ask "what are the 'fine works' as defined by paul? What do all of the things listed have in common?" Everything listed is about caring for family responsibilities and being hospitable and caring to others. Everything listed is about taking care of a physical need, not about preaching or taking care of "spiritual" needs.

So you can agree that faith without works is dead, but disagree that the works required to display faith include preaching.

jhine

Hi , cannot remember the chapter and verse at the moment but the Bible does ,somewhere, say that you are SAVED TO DO the works that your Father set aside for you from the beginning . (paraphrased somewhat but someone might recognise the verse I'm after ) . Note -saved to do not by .

Jan

Isle of Lewis

JWdaughter: Don't let it get to you. Smile,, nod and go on to some other subject or they will make you as crazy as they are.
There is no "comeback" for cluelessness, denial or insanity. Comebacks are just the great lines we think of after it is too late to deliver them. It's pointless to try to change their minds when they are in cult mode, there are no effective words. Just talk to her like a real human when she is in THAT mode.

Exactly.

Just be an example of a healthy, normal life.

When she is ready, she will join you.

Oubliette

Ask her why is it that the Apostle Paul made his living as a tentmaker (Acts 18:3) but none of the GB members have jobs?

Need advice on a comeback to my wife: when she is in cult mode she says faith without works is dead.

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