Why...

by Simon 80 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Tina

  Hi fp,
  You missed my point. It was that after being in a group that stifled ones feelings and autonomy, such as the wts,that one indeed needs to have time for oneself first,to sort thru issues,clean out all the wts garbage that's in their heads(ESPECIALLY women) I still believe not doing that first,is a form of denial - Time is needed (and no its not at all selfish to put ones recovery first) to learn how to re-socialize-new social skills,communication skills,support groups,or theraputic intervention if needed .There's plenty of time to volunteer for org after that..........I did query you in another post about volunteerism,,,,,you stated you're an active jw-can you tell me what organizations you volunteer at-and if the wts had some new light or policy change about using your free time to volunteer for any other organizations? thanks,Tina
• 

  Wayne

  "As apples of gold in silver carvings is a word spoken at the right time for it."
  Yes, many who are newly disfellowshipped do need to find consolation. And it is consoling that God is the final judge of who inherits eternal life--not any man nor any body of elders. However, it is heartbreaking to lose friendships and more heartbreaking when family members also take a stand against the disfellowshipped individual. This need not be. I have been baptized since 1972 and have seen few family members turn on any who were disfellowshipped for reasons other than sexual infidelity. And in these instances many more within the organization choose to forgive and ride out the storm with the disfellowshipped individual--setting a loving example that encourages he or she to return to the flock. My problem was smoking. The society strengthened its stand on the use of tobacco products shortly after my baptism. And I have had a problem on and off ever since. Yes, I have been disfellowshipped more than once. Yet, I have not found the coldness that many refer to herein. In fact, my wife is always telling me how the brothers and sisters are hoping for my return. Prayerfully, I will return. There is no reason why one cannot.

  I feel as though I am jumping into the middle of a flame war--good grief (TM Shultz) However, I do have one or two insights to offer as a disfellowshipped JW. No, I did not choose to be disfellowshipped; but, I did choose to obey the law of the Christ when I was baptized. And, yes, I had associated long enough to know that I was not joining an organization that was shepherded by perfect human beings. But the truth was evident to me--and it remains evident that that truth is indeed blossoming within the organization even as Proverbs 4:18 speaks, " But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established."

  I did get on with my life and went through college with honors in psychology and on into graduate work in interpersonal communication. I found the aloofness of the professors in college--who had made a religion of the theory of evolution--far more unsettling than finding quickly averted eyes of one or two brothers whom I would meet while shopping. Argumentation and debate was the norm in school and many professors actually hated to see me in their classrooms as I DID have answers to their argumentation--answers which these professors had no logical counter debate with which to unseat my faith.

  So, having been a staunch supporter of the Faithful and Discreet Slave Class for all of these years, I suppose that what I am truly getting at here is that it is my humble observation that there is more warmth and human understanding among the witnesses than anywhere else I have ever wandered. And if you cannot find perfection therein--give it and your brothers and sisters another 1000 years to improve. I think that that is, after all, the whole reason why Christ needed to come earth to teach us in perfect human form--by word and example. Remember that he asked that that cup of death on a torture stake be taken from him if possible--Luke 22:42. Further, do you recall Christ saying that: "I want mercy and not sacrifice. Matt 9:13. Christ, although the personification of mercy found NO mercy among the world and little faithfulness among his quickly scattered disciples. No. Jesus Christ knows that none of us are perfect. It will take all of us a very long time to put on the Christlike personality--and the elders are no exception. And, yet, I will argue that there are many fine individuals who are taking the lead in shepherding the congregations of the world wide organization of those called to be "a people for his [Jehovah's] name today--Acts 15:14-17.

  The emphasis in the organization, correspondingly, is now on elders showing Christlike forgiveness when dealing with judicial matters. But clearly one of the prerequisites to becoming the recipient of this Divine mercy has always included a need to demonstrate principled reciprocity--a loving attitude of a willingness to "go and sin no more."

  Glad to meet you all :) If I step on any toes email me.
• 

  stephenw20

  Wayne
  can you explain this?
  "No, I did not choose to be disfellowshipped; but, I did choose to obey the law of the Christ when I was baptized." .....was it the law of christ or of the WTBTS?

  "that it is my humble observation that there is more warmth and human understanding among the witnesses than anywhere else"
  I have to LOUDLY disagree, the last time I wnet to the KH , the only person who spoke to me was the speaker , who was visitng from Bethel........and I was not D/f or DA

  Yesterday I went to another church, i was greeted by no less than four people and invited to an after service refreshement .
  In addition the pastor of this church (Calvry chapel) actually prayed for the NEWLY installed baptist minister down the street...... Brothers in christ..........and next week they are sahring services with another faiths church for easter celebration....

  You will never hear such a prayer at a KH.
  IN MY HO
  S
• 

  larc

  Wayne,

  On another thread you mentioned that you were a "student of psychology" as if this was enough weight to prove your assertion regarding the mental health of Jehovah's Witnesses. You might get away with this type of assertion at the Kingdom Hall or at the door, but with a more savy audience as you will find here this just doesn't cut it, as you saw from some of the rejoinders. Alan, who responded to you, has a master's in Electrical Engineering and course work towards a PhD. This requires a great deal more understanding of research methods and a higher level of intellect than a degree in inpterpersonal communications, which is a pretty weak program by comparison.

  I have been at this site for 5 months now, and never used credentials to back up my conclusions. Since you decided to "pull rank", I will too. I have a PhD in Psychology with a strong emphasis on researh methods and statistics. I am retired now, but spent the last 15 years of my career as a full professor with tenure. I have authored or coauthored over 25 research articles in peer reviewed journals. Next week, I am meeting with three professors to discuss collaborative research that could lead to at least three publications in the Journal of Applied Psychology. None of these details were known on this board until now. I letting you know, so that you understand that whatever proof you bring here better be of the highest calibre or it will be disected very thoroughly.

  Wayne, the reason I am reacting so strongly is that I am offended by people who flash credentials as evidence of proof. Recently, we had a new poster with the handle of Mensa163, who touts a IQ score upon introduction. After some dialogue with him, it became clear to me that his claims are highly exaggerated. Neither his written content nor his information retrieval skills were indicative of someone with mensa status. I guess, you just happened here at the wrong time, because it is the cummulative effect of his respones and yours that got me going.
• 

  Flowerpetal

  Hi fp,
  You missed my point. It was that after being in a group that stifled ones feelings and autonomy, such as the wts,that one indeed needs to have time for oneself first,to sort thru issues,clean out all the wts garbage that's in their heads(ESPECIALLY women) I still believe not doing that first,is a form of denial - Time is needed (and no its not at all selfish to put ones recovery first) to learn how to re-socialize-new social skills,communication skills,support groups,or theraputic intervention if needed .
  -------
  You must have been in a really suppressed cong! Whew!

  ---
  In time the savage bull doth bear the yoke.
  Much Ado About Nothing (Shakespeare)
• 

  Wayne

  Hi stephenw20

  Yes, it was the law of Christ. The same law that teaches me not to turn for solice to churches that are nationalistic.
• 

  Wayne

  Again, larc, point well taken.

  agape
• 

  Wayne

  Once more larc

  Actually looking at the world of understanding our cognitions of sensation and peception is a pretty interesting approach to understanding human dynamics. But, then again, so is attempting to relook at the world through the eyes of Christ. Although existing in God'd form and being foremost of the new milleniums Kings, Paul calls the annointed class an administration for the public good: Eph.1:10
  and Christ himself .."a public servant in the holy place." Heb 8:2
  What do psychologists think of when they think of the word king.

  agape again
• 

  Wayne

  Once more larc

  Actually looking at the world of understanding our cognitions of sensation and peception from the standpoint of intrapersonal as well as interpersonal communication is a pretty interesting approach to understanding human dynamics. But, then again, it is far more complex and challenging attempting to rethink the world, and its constucts, as seen through the eyes of Christ. Although existing in God's form and being foremost of the new millenium's Kings, Paul calls the annointed class (including Christ I surmise) an administration for the public good: Eph.1:10 and Paul calls Jesus Christ himself .."a public servant in the holy place." Heb 8:2

  What do psychologists think of when they think of the word king?
  So, I agree with you. We'll leave the world and it's learning behind.

  (I hope this is an edit and not a repost:)
  agape again
• 

  Tina

  fp,
  ANY woman needs the time I spoke of,ALL congs. are repressive to women. Your flippant remark doesn't change the hard fact of JW females and their second class status. When you get up and give a Sunday talk,become the School servant,lead in a prayer(w/ both genders present)become an elder, then tell me your cong isnt repressed.
  What I wrote were just SOME of the recovery strategies needed by ALL women leaving such a patriarchal gerontacracy-some of those worked for me,others I havent mentioned,. You dont seem to undertand a general statement from a specific one.
  Cognitive re-structuring I would add in your paticular case along with developing critical thinking skills. Tina