The Sleeping Dragon is Awakening

by Perry 47 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Crazy151drinker

  CLINTON is a big old pussy.

  We lost 18 Rangers becuase that pansy ass wouldnt back them up. And after our troops got shredded, what does he do??? HE LEAVES! SO WHAT WAS THE POINT???????? We should have carpet bombed the whole %@#% place. Bullshit POLITICIANS should get their tiny dicks out of military decisions. Look at Vietnam, what a total POLITICAL @%@$-up. Pentagon Papers??? Oh, lets not attack the North, dont shoot unless fired upon, dont go into cambodia, etc...etc....

  Politicians dont have a @%@#% clue about Military Policy, especially some DRAFT DODGING pussy like Clinton. How can you people bitch about having to much power?? Would you rather have CHINA in Control??????? Get your head out of your asses folks. We have one BIG STICK and since we are all paying for it we might as well use it! As much as I try to understand your concerns about Iraq, I cant, the problem being that your concerns are false and idiotic. Wake up dipshits!! Idiots like you allowed HITLER to cruise through Europe.
• 

  gsx1138

  I'm sorry your thought processes need to be so linear Perry.

  I don't hate all gays; I hate gays who push their own agenda in politics.

  I don't hate all white supremicists; I hate white supremicists who push their own agenda in politics.

  I don't hate all black folks; I hate black folks who push their own agenda in politics.

  I don't hate all environmentalists; I hate environmentalists who push their own agenda in politics.

  I don't hate all women; I hate women who push their own agenda in politics.

  Your premise is false, and your conclusion is little more than bigotry.

  Gays aren't trying to convert me to gay or trying push their agenda to suppress the rights of others. The Christian Coalition is trying to convert me and get laws passed that supress the rights of others. If you don't believe this then you are living in a hole.

  I don't hate white supremicists because they are a good source of comedy as their ignorance is astounding.

  I don't hate black folks because they have already been suppressed and are digging their way back up just to be equal.

  Environmentalists care about themselves which is very American so how can I hate them for being american?

  Woman are forced into a patriarchal society, the christian coalition wants to force them into a patriarchal religion.

  You can't take one point of view and apply it to everything. This is the very problem that the christian right in this country have, they try to push everyone into their "world view".

  Reagan can take credit for the huge surge in cocaine profits in this country and the large amount of money his "war on drugs" campaign was making.

  And you have proof that ole' Ronnie and Nancy made huge profits on the Just Say No program? I didn't think so.

  I think you missed the point. The short term "hardships" are what created the proliferation of the crack culture in the first place. Reagan doesn't have to receive money directly, I was talking about the enforcement agencies such as the DEA, ATF, and whatever Federal Agencies profitted from our war on drugs.

  Yes, that is the main issue here isn't it? I really don't think that you will care much about your money when you see a bright flash and realize you have about 3 seconds before you are vaporized.

  Typical fear tactic with little of any real value other than to get people to make knee jerk reactions.

  Somewhere along the line most of you missed the point entirely. I'm speaking of the Republicans being no better than the Democrats. Invading Iraq is an entire seperate issue yet you guys seem to think that only Republicans want to invade. While you may concede hypocrisy on both sides how willing are some of you to dig into Bush's precidency the way you have Clinton's?

  For a small example of Bush's own dirt.

  Asked later if his [Harken] stock sale had been related to the company's impending setback, {Board member] Bush replied, "I absolutely had no idea and would not have sold it had I known."

  In fact, SEC records show that Harken's president had warned board members two months before Bush's sell-off that the company had liquidity problems that would "drastically affect" operations. --SF Chronicle, 07.05.02

  Your semi-Slippery Slope arguments, Perry add nothing. I will admit that I have become a little too personal in my postings on this subject so to those I childishly called names I apologize.

  Edited to add: I agree with you Crazy that Clinton was a pussy when it came to Somalia. Carpet bombing innocent people is not the answer either. The worste thing you can do is let a politian run a war.

  Edited by - gsx1138 on 8 November 2002 17:15:16
• 

  heathen

  I think what we have here is a world power that wants to continue in the same direction of bad foriegn policy .One could say , if the US had not backed bin laden to begin with than the russians who are now our allies would have taken care of him a long time ago.You could also say that if the US had not backed saddam during the Iraq Iran war then chances are that Iraq would not be posing the threat it is today.Now it looks as if the US has to pay off other countries such as north korea and russia who relly on oil from Iraq just to settle the score with a piss ant like saddam. The whole thing is completely fubar. Who can guess what kind of horrors will culminate this time? I mean saddam has already shown that he will use any means possible to ensure that the world suffers in any way at his disposal when he blew up the oil fields in kuwait.Then we had the el nino effect and red tide .
• 

  Perry

  Gays aren't trying to convert me to gay or trying push their agenda to suppress the rights of others. The Christian Coalition is trying to convert me and get laws passed that supress the rights of others. If you don't believe this then you are living in a hole.

  Nice try. First your problem is with an "agenda". Now you assert that your problem is with conversion. Don't convert....simple. Problem solved.

  Most educated people understand that what you are suggesting have happen would change our entire governmet. Groups are supposed to compete...HELLO! Any group that feels that their rights are ignored will cry foul. They will say that their rights are violated. That's the nature of politics and the way our system was meant to function, or didn't you notice? In the rare instance of an issue being too hot or too complicated for the voters, the judicial branch steps in and issues a ruling based on the constitution. In my opinion as a loyal American, this should only happen a few times per century when the issue has to do with social policy.

  The bar is deliberately set high to over-turn the will of the majority. However, that is very slippery business and the judicial rulings had better found their judgements squarely on the founding fathers wishes as set forth in the constitution if they want to keep the country intact. So far, they have for the most part done this. Some of the most profound literature in American culture has been written by Supreme Court Justices. You should read some. You will be a better American for it. And, no you don't have to agree with anyone to be a better American.

  Typical fear tactic with little of any real value other than to get people to make knee jerk reactions.

  Wrong. The fear is founded. We have two of the tallest structures in the world and thousands of dead people to testify about the seriousness of the enemy.

  Somewhere along the line most of you missed the point entirely. I'm speaking of the Republicans being no better than the Democrats. Invading Iraq is an entire seperate issue yet you guys seem to think that only Republicans want to invade. While you may concede hypocrisy on both sides how willing are some of you to dig into Bush's precidency the way you have Clinton's?

  Your anti-american sentiments are repulsive, inflammatory, and offer nothing in the way of reform. You are acting like a scared little dub who believes that an invisible government will make all the tough decisions for you. Only, you no longer believe in the invisible government so you have nothing but your own illusions to rely upon.

  Your semi-Slippery Slope arguments, Perry add nothing. I will admit that I have become a little too personal in my postings on this subject so to those I childishly called names I apologize.

  No need to apoligize. I don't recall you attacking anyone personally.

  Edited by - Perry on 9 November 2002 10:37:9
• 

  gsx1138

  Your anti-american sentiments are repulsive, inflammatory, and offer nothing in the way of reform. You are acting like a scared little dub who believes that an invisible government will make all the tough decisions for you. Only, you no longer believe in the invisible government so you have nothing but illusion to rely upon.

  Ok, I give up. I don't know what the fuck you are reading but how is my being critical of the President and the Government being anti-american. How is questioning authority acting like a scared little dub? You really sound like you're just babbling. Your invisible government bullshit doesn't even coincide with what I've written. I really can't decide whether you're trying hard to appear intelligent or you're just playing games.

  Nice try. First your problem is with an "agenda". Now you assert that your problem is with conversion. Don't convert....simple. Problem solved.

  Once again you try to twist this into some kind of fake argument. Conversion is the Agenda, get it? I don't have any plans on converting to christianity but I don't want any type of federal pressure put on my daughter to accept their version of God either.

  And, no you don't have to agree with anyone to be a better American.

  Holy shit! We agree on something. I state that I don't agree with the way the Christian Coalition is pushing their Agenda or how Bush is handling Iraq and you try to tell me how I'm anti-american.

  I fully understand the nature of politics in this country which is why I choose to be critical of all politicians. If you want to believe that people disagreeing with the president will change out entire government then perhaps it is you who should read more. As for my apology, it was directed to Farkel.
• 

  czarofmischief

  Ah, I love the sound of flame shooting back and forth across the Net in the morning. Sounds like victory. Or at least, freedom ringing its cacophony of viewpoints.

  Here's my 2 cent investment in the American dialogue.

  Saddam needs to go. Maybe its partly pride on Bush II's part, but that doesn't change the fact that Iraq cannot be trusted not to use WMD to terrorize its neighbors. So let's get him before he gets us. Because he's already tried.

  CZAR
• 

  Farkel

  gsx,

  : being 33 is young then thanks.

  I have a daughter your age, so as I said, I LIVED through the history you think you know so much about. You read about it in books. I was an eyewitness to it.

  If you would like me to demolish this drivel, please ask:

  : It is also nice of you to mention the fall of the Soviet Union and the Berlin wall but forget to mention that we supported drug cartels who were willing to fight for us in Central America. Reagan was not the only one to contribute to the fall of the USSR but he sure loved to take credit for it. The falling of the Berlin wall was an eventuality of the fall of the USSR so there is nothing special about Bush Senior. Reagan is the one who offered weapons/money to the militant muslims in Iran. You forget that we were willing to train Osama and friends (Reagan and partly Bush years) then leave them to their own devices after the SU pulled out of Afghanistan. How about all of the rebel groups we funded in Central America that were commiting genocide. While I'm at it, how about all the ass kissing Bush and Company are doing with Saudi Arabia. Apparently you missed the end of my post because I despise the Democrats just as much. If you weren't so blinded by your own prejudices you would be able to see beyond right wing propoganda. Don't confuse my minor defense of Clinton as some sort of endorsement of his actions as president (I voted for Dole 2nd time around).

  I will comment about this, though:

  : I'm merely pointing out the hypocrisy of the Republican party.

  That's no point. Republicans are hypocrites just like any other party. That's a strawman and red-herring. You were bashing Reagan. Since you brought it up, let's stick with that.

  : Personally, I would prefer to have John McKain in the white house right now instead of the christian coalition corporate ass kisser Bush.

  Yeah? Well, that's why we can vote for our leaders, isn't it? That's why we can argue about them, isn't it?

  Now tell the whole world how you know that our President is a Corporate ass-kisser, why that's bad, IF that influences his decisions as Chief Executive and if you think that does, then present solid evidence why it does. And if you can do that, then show that the other side NEVER does that? They're ALL thieves and liars. It's just that some are a little better than others. If you had lived as long as I have, you'd have learned that.

  : You seem too ready to jump down anyones throat who doesn't share your "world view".

  I don't give a fuck, except I will attack stupid arguments every single time and will attempt to enlighten those young and foolish enough not to have a grasp of all the facts, but arrogant and stupid enough to think they do.

  I've lived and observed throughout the history you think you know so much about. You were 11 or so when Reagan was elected and you didn't know shit about shit at that age. Now you are trying to teach history to someone who's been there.

  Farkel

  Edited by - Farkel on 9 November 2002 0:30:36
• 

  Perry

  Ok, I give up. I don't know what the fuck you are reading but how is my being critical of the President and the Government being anti-american.

  gsx,

  Your posts are far more than critical of a Presidency. You appear critical of all Presidents. You appear critical of all political parties. You seem critical of a representative form of government because you are apparently under the illusion that only the christian coalition is competing for your vote. The reality is that all constituencies want to "convert" you to support their agenda. That is the very nature of American democracy. Since by your own words you "hate" one particular group for simply being politically active, which is their constitutional right, I believe that amounts to an anti-american point of view.

  How is questioning authority acting like a scared little dub? You really sound like you're just babbling. Your invisible government bullshit doesn't even coincide with what I've written.

  Its easy to sit in the comfort of freedom and hurl stones at your government isn't it? Offering to be part of a solutiuon isn't nearly as easy though is it? You sit there and spew anti-american hate, re-write history, and offer nothing in the way of re-form or how it might be better. That would require thought, an opinion, and the guts to defend a position. You have offered none of this....only tantrums and hate.

  The scared little dubs do the same and do not participate in govt. because they are filled with the WT propaganda that all govt is bad. It is not, but your phobic rhetoric is. They have no opinion on govt. other than a willingness to throw rocks at the very institution that makles its existence possible. When cornered on important issues....they simply regurgitate the standard , leave it to JEEEHOVAH, and his imaginary govt. They have nothing of substance to offer other than hate. Your sentiments sound eerily familiar.

  I really can't decide whether you're trying hard to appear intelligent or you're just playing games.

  Perhaps you will be able to form a logical opinion and back it up one day.

  Once again you try to twist this into some kind of fake argument. Conversion is the Agenda, get it? I don't have any plans on converting to christianity but I don't want any type of federal pressure put on my daughter to accept their version of God either.

  Nice tactic. Bring a helpless child in as the victum. Pathetic. Ok, I'll go along. I may not want the federal government giving sexual advice to my 13 year old daughter. Does that give me the right to hate those that are politically active with that agenda? Should they be denied a voice in our government? Or, should I protest with my vote? Which course is more American?

  Holy shit! We agree on something. I state that I don't agree with the way the Christian Coalition is pushing their Agenda or how Bush is handling Iraq and you try to tell me how I'm anti-american.

  Wrong. You said you hated them because they were politically active. You lie and continually twist your argument hoping to somehow garner sympathy by imagining yourself a victum here. What a miserable childish existence you must experience.

  I fully understand the nature of politics in this country which is why I choose to be critical of all politicians. If you want to believe that people disagreeing with the president will change out entire government then perhaps it is you who should read more.

  Again, offering nothing of substance, changing your position, and just throwing rocks. Yawn.
• 

  scotsman

  Farkel says gsx musn't discuss history that he hasn't directly experienced, or been old enough to understand. What age were you Farkel when Mr Chamberlain landed waving his piece of paper? Would being alive to experience the events of the late 1930's mean that you had greater insight into them than some one younger? Or would it just mean that you remember them. Remembering Reagan at the '80's isn't evidence that someone understands them.

  Next you'll be telling us that 'before grey hair we should rise'!
• 

  cellomould

  This thread has some real potential...

  Please skim these highlights or, even better, read the articles in their entirety. The first one was written last month, on the topic of the 'Axis of Evil':

  http://www.foreigncorrespondent.com/archive/axis_strikes_back.html

  As this tragic farce was unfolding, a new bombshell erupted when that other tricky axis of evil, North Korea, revealed it had nuclear weapons. Now, the CIA has known since 1993 that North Korea had at least 2-3 nuclear weapons and 5,000 tons of poison gas and germs, plus the missiles and artillery to deliver them onto Seoul, the 37,000 US troops in South Korea, all of Japan, and US bases in Okinawa and Guam.

  Readers of this column have also known since 1993 that North Korea had weapons of mass destruction. Since then, I've written half a dozen columns - the latest on 11 August - pointing out the utter illogic of whipping up hysteria over impotent Iraq while denying the very real threat to South Koreans, Americans, and Japanese from armed and highly dangerous North Korea.

  How many people here want a war with North Korea? Bush most likely wants to avoid that scenario. So why has he been so rash?

  In 1993, the Pentagon estimated that a full-scale war with North Korea would cost US forces 250,000 casualties.

  And, speaking of 1993, here is an article written back in 1993, in response to Reagan's strikes against a Libyan terrorist. Does anyone here know who I am talking about? This is highly relevant folks. Even Farkel is old enough to remember 1993:

  http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Zinn/Tripoli_ZR.html

  There is no flag large enough to cover the shame of killing innocent people for a purpose which is unattainable.If the purpose is to stop terrorism, even the supporters of the bombing say it won't work; if the purpose is to gain respect for the United States, the result is the opposite: all over the world there is anger and indignation at Reagan's mindless, pointless, soulless violence. We have had presidents just as violent. We have rarely had one so full of hypocritical pieties about "the right to life."

  Too bad Khadafi's infant daughter died, one columnist wrote. Too bad, he said, but that's the game of war. Well, if that's the game, then let's get the hell out of it, because it is poisoning us morally, and not solving any problem. It is only continuing and escalating the endless cycle of retaliation which will one day, if we don't kick our habits, kill us all...

  Let us hope that, even if this generation, its politicians, its reporters, its flag-wavers and fanatics, cannot change its ways, the children of the next generation will know better, having observed our stupidity. Perhaps they will understand that the violence running wild in the world cannot be stopped by more violence, that someone must say: we refuse to retaliate, the cycle of terrorism stops here.

  I hope these links will help put things into perspective.

  cellmould