USA WAR PROPAGANDA

by proplog2 51 Replies latest jw friends

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  No Apologies

  back,

  couldn'y agree more with you and jjrizo.

  Dakota, so far you've done nothing here but name-call, bluster, and wave the flag. Grow up.

  blind patriotism is just as bad as blind faith.
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  Guest 77

  Oh boy, just what we need, another hot topic! Here we go again, buckle up everyone.

  Guest 77
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  troucul

  I believe the old adage applies here: Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one, and they all stink.

  With that in mind, I'll post mine. What most of us forget is that Saddam used to be a friend to the U.S. At one time, he believed that he would act as the police in the middle east. When that did not come to fruition, he became insane with rage. (Not my opinion, but that of a well respected and reknown professor) The gold old USA is as much to blame for that. The US is as much to blame for the problems in Iraq. When W's father told the Kurds to rise up and overthrow Saddam, he said we'd be there. Instead, while women and children we're being slaughtered by the thousands, the US said "Good work boys, it's quittin' time." Just as the USA is to blame for the disintegration of Afghanistan. Our government supported the mujahadin and when they won, we packed our bags and said: "Good work boys, we're goin home". And we wonder why they spent the next 20 years wallowing in a bloodbath. Here's a thought, perhaps the US government has finally learned it's lesson. War in Yugoslavia was followed by peacekeeping and nation-building. War in Afghanistan is followed by peacekeeping and nation-building. (Don't give me any crap about puppet governments, I've heard that shit before-it's better than letting them all kill each other) Could it be, that W is trying to atone for his father's mistakes? Has the US finally learned? Are policies changing?

  Yes, Americans are ignorant, arrogant and stupid. They are greedy capitalists. They only care about themselves. They have no couth. And they contradict that with their "puritanism". The propaganda put forth by the press rivals that of Al-Jazeera. The so-calIed "democracy" is an abortion. The USA is not the best country in the world, nor the greatest. But at the same time I beg to differ about the US not lasting long as a world power. For all its faults, too many people love the USA. It will be around for quite some time I believe. While I am embarrassed to call GWB my president, my birthright as an American forces me to defend my origin. Everyone else would and should do the same for their respective countries. So with that in mind, Saddam can kiss my ass!!!!

  JUST BRING IT

  Edited by - troucul on 10 November 2002 15:34:5
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  DakotaRed

  Dakota, so far you've done nothing here but name-call, bluster, and wave the flag. Grow up.

  No Apologies, you and I have never had a direct exchange. So, why not put your head back up where it belongs and use your ignore button?

  Lew W
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  back2dafront

  Dakota,

  I totally understand why others come to this country, especially from 3rd world countries. This is the land of opportunity, etc. etc...that's great, it really is. You don't know how fortunate I feel to live here - not once have I ever had to worry about where my next meal was going to come from, nor have I had to be concerned with rebels rioting, kidnapping, looting...I live a life that millions of people would LOVE to live, and that's because I was born in America and raised by parents smart enough to instill in me from a young age good work ethic. But again, the fact that this land is so prosperous has nothing to do with it's "greatness." So many "great" people have gotten to the "top" by sacrificing their ethics, and I believe that's what's happened with America. Yeah, we're at the top of the world, but look what it took to get here.

  I don't have the time or honestly the most accurate recollection of how the USA was established, but I know it's not a pretty picture. This has always been an aggressive nation, and when people don't see things the way we do, we try to force them, and if that doesn't work, we kill them. The Native Indians were WISE people that taught respect for the Earth, and the way they were slaughtered is a sad sad story. Now look..we've advanced tremendously, but look what we've done to the Earth at the same time. The changes that will happen within the next 50 years will be drastic, all due to GREED and lack of foresight. Just as I don't think the Nazis were "great" for what they did to the Jewish people, I don't think America is "great" for the injustices it incurred on the Native Americans, not to mention the racial prejudice that was instigated by Slavery. We've come a long way, thank goodness, but still this Superpower with all it's might can be taken down over night. I'm not saying I hope that happens, but if and when it does happen, I'll be the first to say "You had it coming."

  What's up with the need to feel proud of the country you live in? This is all THE EARTH. Every human lives on the earth. Why the need to be proud to live on one particular land mass? I don't get it. I was born in America - so what? Does that make me greater than someone born in Sudan? Italy? Russia? Iraq? All should be able to enjoy where they live, and if they don't we should all pull together to make their conditions easier for them, but unfortunately it's not as simple as that, and that's what really sucks.

  The very ones who openly condemn us and harbor all the ill will against us are also the very same ones who openly accept our aid and assistance and expect us to rescue them if they are invaded by unfriendlies. They are also the same ones who freely flood our markets to sell their wares and support their economies and yet, deny our wares to be sold freely in their streets.

  What choice do they have? America has control over so much of their well-being. Unfortunately what makes other countries so desolate is the climate. The rains that take out the rice in Asia. The deserts of Africa that don't allow crops to grow very easily. Therefore these countries have no choice but to rely on other more prosperous countries for support. But if the hand that feeds you abuses you at the same time, what are you to do? Not talk bad about them just because they help you out? That's like a kid not coming out about sex abuse because it was his daddy, who provided for him as well. It's hard to come out with the truth, but we can sure as hell understand why they do. A lot of times America's "acts of help" are simply ways to disguise making and/or saving money for them.

  Case and point - Nike builds a plant in a small Mexico town and hires children to work for $2.00 a day. Nike feels good about this because they're bringing work to a desolated area, whereas the REAL motive was cheap labor, thus saving them thousands of dollars. This is driven home by the fact that when establishments are set up like this, they don't take into consideration the same town irrigates their crops with untreated sewer water. If they were REALLY concerned about the people, wouldn't it be far more beneficial to aid these people in establishing proper irrigation so that every kid has more than a 20% chance of not dying from disease before the age of 9? At least take care of the irrigation problem first, then build your plant. (These numbers are not factual, but the example is). This is the way America exploits other countries, the so-called assistance sometimes is laced with auterior motives of the financial gain type.

  I have no problem in giving props to the organizations in America that are truly trying to help others. However, I totally understand why a lot of people, American and non-American, have negative things to say about this country. There's just too much dirt on the floor that can't be swept under the carpet or behind the door without someone seeing it. And because of that, I have a very difficult time seeing where God comes into the picture, with this country or any country for that matter. If God approves of the ways countries kill each other in His name, maybe we're worshipping a different god than we think.
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  Francois

  Proplog, you congratulate us for freeing ourselves from the propaganda of a religion, excoriate us for, in your opinion, accepting the propaganda of the press, and then you have the balls to suggest we should accept the carefully selected and edited propaganda of YOUR choosing. Not terribly consistent, are you?

  You are an intellectual joke and a political fraud.
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  troucul

  I must address what you said back. While I agree with most of what you said, I must take you to task as to the need to be proud as to where one is from. While we are all part of THE EARTH, as you say, I, for one would hate to live in a place where cultures blend in together in one place. Even in large cities where there are large numbers of immigrants, where there are 'melting pots', people segregate themselves to form 'Chinatowns', or 'Little Italys'. Boundaries need to exist to preserve cultural continuity. It's only natural for people of a certain language, culture, race, etc., to want to be together. It's the way it should be. And to be proud of that heritage, is especially beautiful. Why would anyone not want to be proud as to where they are from? That makes no sense to me. And, fortunately or unfortunately, cultures are associated with particular landmasses. The weather, the type of land where a person is from, and where that land is situated on our globe play a large part in a person's culture.

  You know I met an Afghani immigrant awhile back and he told me he was proud to be Afghani. With all his country's faults, he still loved his country. That to me, was one of the coolest things I had ever heard. I admired him for that.

  People have every right to be proud about where they are from, that's the bottom line. That is one thing that makes human nature beautiful.
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  back2dafront

  Troucul,

  I agree with ya...I mean...yes...everyone should be proud of who they are and where they live, regardless of the prosperity of the region. There's beauty in all nationalities and regions of this world, that's for sure. My problem with national pride is when this pride elevates the persons thinking to a position of "I'm better than you." That's my whole problem - I guess I could've worded that a little clearer.

  Does that make more sense now?

  Yeah, I'm all about culture - I love visiting the "chinatowns" and what-not in big cities. You can take a vacation without leaving town! hahaha

  I think it's natural to want to be with anyone you speak the same language as. Above and beyond that, I don't really think it's natural to only want to be amongst those of your same race, and I'll use children as an example - they don't care what race another kid is, along as they can come out and play they don't care.

  I'm all for preserving culture though - culture is definitely a good thing.
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  LuckyLucy

  troucel...you said; You know I met an Afghani immigrant awhile back and he told me he was proud to be Afghani. With all his country's faults, he still loved his country. That to me, was one of the coolest things I had ever heard. I admired him for that.
  With all due respect...that is the dumbest reason ...Just because you where born in a certain Country you should be loyal or proud of your country???
  Thats like saying well i was born a JW and even though they are hypocrates ,child molesters,and greedy bastards...by george..im going to stay loyal to them because i was born in that religion..people never cease to amaze me

  Edited by - LuckyLucy on 10 November 2002 18:8:52
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  Perry

  proplog2 said:

  You sound like the Watchtower and you are just as arrogant. Anyone who doesn't agree with you is "a loser". The following are Bush's reasons for attacking Iraq.

  1. Weapons of mass destruction.

  2. Sadaam is cruel and ruthless

  3. Sadaam is affiliated with Bin Laden

  Try and defend these ideas. I'll obliterate everyone of your arguments.

  Your comments sound far more arrogant than anything I have read from DakotaRed, to whom the above comments were partially directed to. Your pitiful attempt to single out the above three issues in an apparent ploy to "obliterate" someone's argument can hardly be viewed as anything less than insolent.

  Furthermore, the inane collection of quotes that you carefully chose to disply in a somewhat vain and long-winded attempt at sagaciousness, has left this reader puzzled as to how those serendipitous ramblings in any way relate to your argument that your three listings are without merit.

  Is there some reason why, in your haste to "obliterate" someone's argument that you failed to mention the primary reason for pressure on the Iraqi government that President Bush gave to the UN? Remember? It was the one where he reminded everyone of the agreements that the Iraqi leadership willingly entered into and has consistently violated.

  He challenged the UN to enforce compliance on previous agreements. He further made the profound argument that UN agreements are worthless without the willingness to enforce those agreements.

  Please give us a sound and reasoned rebuttal to President Bush's primary argument.

  Edited by - Perry on 10 November 2002 18:8:9