by nowaytess 30 Replies latest jw friends
I tip my hat to the new constitution
Take a vow for the new revolution
Smile and grin at the change all around
Pick up my guitar and play
Just like yesterday
And I get on my knees and pray..
We don't get fooled again.....
Meet the new boss........Same as the old boss
Nowaytess,
See what you done all you did was get unbelievers all fired up and stur there hatred up even more towards the Christian Church and the Gospel. Your complaint on this board has done nothing but harm towards Christianity. Granted the misuse ababuse of tiething on behafe on some of the churches does not help. Your post has done more harm than good to the Church and it's covenant bible believing people. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAIMED OF YOURSELF nowaytess!!!!!!!!!!!
Do take your complaints to other more mature christians or to the session(elders) of your church they should give you the biblical counseling that you need for instruction and admonition on how to deal with tiething and those leaders who abuse tiething.
jr
I am very sorry you feel this issue is turning people away from the Gospel. I think because of the heavy bill collection style used on most church platforms, Leaders and TV Evanglist have made it an issue long before I have.
I feel tithing subject hits a raw nerve with a lot of folks churched or not.
Tonight, I went to the first class in my Chaplincy training. One of the questions asked to the Class was name one reason why a person does not go to church. The loudest and most emphazied one is how Churches and Christian based ministries are hitting them up for money all the time.
I don't think airing my views on tithing on this board has damaged "enemies of the Gospel "as you put it anymore or less towards the Gospel. I feel it shows how heavy handed preaching on the subject has made more enemies of the Gospel than my little thread. Pastors, TV Evangleist and Denominations are turning the stomach than I who brings up a very real subject which is well known outside of the church. In 1998 the Boston Globe ran an article "Pentacostals give God thier due." All the article talked about is how they give God 10% of their income. It is so part of pop culture to see TV preachers begging for money. Sadly most live in the lap of luxury while many Christians struggle to get out of debt or make ends meet.
Did Jesus live such a lavish lifestyle? Where does it say in the Bible Christian Church must give 10% did not Apostle Paul work instead of asking the Chruch to pay him?
I beleive it is so indoctrinated, Many Christians will belive it or fear the fact if they don't give bad things will happen. I mean you are stealing from God if 10% is not given, right? Guilt trip is repeated and embedded from week to week. I won't even talk about Christian media who drills it on every program. Not includes asking for donations to support their ministries.
Southren Bapisit are very big into the concept of 10% tithe. Have you ever tired to reason with a Southren Bapist on this subject, let alone the Pastor? They know how my husband and I feel about it and use sciptures to back up our view. It puts us on the butt end, because the life blood today of any church is how much money can be collected.
If a person choose to Tithe and belive it is a requirement I will respect thier belif. I don't have to agree with it, but if a person make a choice to give 10% it is between them and God.
I believe a Christian should have desinated in thier budget a regular donation. It is given freely and not under compulsion. A church who is not heavy handed about donations is more in the way of the 1 century model.
I felt it a subject which should be brought up here. Can you see the fruits of the crop of Churches and TV evanglist are producing in those who listen and worship at the various churchs?
I like to see more Christians donate something more valuble which is their time. Where has discipleship gone? Why is the Christian Churchso Scripturally Iliterate when it come to why they belive what they do. I know more can quote off the top of their heads on Tithing though. Why do you think this is so?
Here is a good link about Tithing. It covers all sciptures related to the subject.
See what you done all you did was get unbelievers all fired up and stur there hatred up even more towards the Christian Church and the Gospel
Just because we may be critical of tithing does NOT mean that we are critical of the Gospel. Do not confuse the two. I think many people on this board have had enough of that type of confusion. Many were accused of being against Jehovah just because we were critical of the Society and GB.
I personally find that accusation offensive. And, I feel those type of comments make me stay away from church even more.
YOU SHOULD BE ASHAIMED OF YOURSELF nowaytess!!!!!!!!!!!
You should be ashamed for making those accusations.
1st thing is first....
Most of the people you see on the Trinity Brodcasting Network are not a good representation of what the Christian church is.
So get your christianity from your local church and not on Television.....
If you look at Eph. 4 you will see that this stuff takes place in the church like your local bible believing congragation these things don't take place on T.V.
Nowaytess, Stay away from the electronic church and stick with the real thing..
now the reason why people stay away from church is because they are truth supressesers and are in need of God's grace go to Romans 1:18:32
Give me one passage from the new or old testement that abrogates the practice for God's covenant people to tiething or giving thier money to the church.
I hope you don't give your money to those jokers on T.V. give your money to the local church.
Christians don't tieth because of fear!!! but out of gratitude for what god has done in thier lives in saving them. They tieth to help pay for the function of the church to give to the poor and struggling in the church as a work of mercy, but I guess mercy to those in need is an offence to you they should just pull them selves up by thier own boot straps but then maybe thats how you view salvation, boot stap salvation not much different than JW salvation.
Edited by - clash_city_rockers on 16 November 2002 3:20:48
el Kabong
wrote:
I personally find that accusation offensive. And, I feel those type of comments make me stay away from church even more.
No you stay away from Church because you supress the truth in unrightiousness
Go to Romans 1:18-32
Edited by - clash_city_rockers on 16 November 2002 3:21:27
Clash,
I wonder how much damage you are doing right now for preaching the word of the Gospel though your actions. You crass behavior does more damage than a healthy discussion of the issue of tithing 10% which many Christian denominations raise themselves. If you really want to blame someone for this subject go local churches which are now pushing it.
Now I have been to a few churches. I don't think you are taking note of my post very well.
Sadly many churches on the local level are pushing the 10% rule. If it was just TV evangliest, then this post whould have been challenged a long time ago from more people than yourself. Eph 4 does not talk about tithing, so what was your point? I am not putting down the church, but if the many Christian denominations (not all but a lot) are jumping on the band wagon teaching from the pulpit of the 10% tithing rule, it should be discussed.
If you watch local braodst of local churches on public access or Sunday mornings, they are also pushing the tithing issue. I noticed many posted here who told of local church issues which they have experice related to this issue.
I like to note there are some denominations and Christian TV evenglist who don't push tithing or beg for money all the time. The people are in the minority their numbers are growning less and less. At times those who stand for the opposing view on tithing are subject to guilt trip and hassles by chruches and ministires who need to push their agenda to make the payrolls and bill they are racking up on the way.
One of the problem in ministering the Gospel to JW is the tithing issue. JW who have left the heavy handed leadership fo the Wt, are now walking into same Chruches who are teaching this point (it seems like every sunday a portion of the program is dedicated to this subject more and more) are now told from the pulpit of new church, you are required to give 10% of your income. All the guilt messages when you don't.
Look at the TBN post which started awhile back. If the Tithing issue did not affect many XJWS it would not be mentioned.
Just think, the JW who has left Wt now is subjectaged almost all the time for not only donation of 10% of income, to give more and more. How do you think the XJW is going to react? The subject is a healthy one to discuss here because most people have an opinion on it.
No you stay away from Church because you supress the truth in unrightiousnessGo to Romans 1:18-32
Wow Clash!!! Thank you for judging me. You sound like a member of Landover Baptist Church. If you don't know what that is, go to www.landoverbaptist.org (Yes I know it's a parody, but a damn good one. I LOVE the mail they get from clueless readers).
It's because of your type of judgemental attitude that people are staying away from church. Just because some people choose not to regularly attend church does not make them unrighteous and wicked. I've attended several "mainstream" churches since leaving the JW's, including penticostal, and found "unrighteousness" in each of them. In one case, the YOUTH pastor was banging, or trying to bang every woman in the congregation. All while on the platform "preaching" to us on how kids today have no morals, and pushing us to give more to the youth ministry (I had young kids in the ministry at the time). All the while, he was using funds from the church to pay for his "extra-cirricular" activities. That's giving to God?? I've seen so called baptist and penticostal pastors drive around in Lincolns, Caddy's, BMW's ect, and talking on their cell phones (before everybody had one), while I'm driving around in my used clunker. I've seen their houses while I was living in an apartment. All this with church funds. So, Tithing is not giving to God, It's membership dues into the country club. The more you pay, the better you are treated.
Edited by - El Kabong on 16 November 2002 10:3:36
nowaytess,
Look I don't mean to be mean to you. But the issue is better handled if you go to CHRISTIAN in your church or other local churches and discuss your concerns. Airing it out hear only gets non christians fuel to raise complaint against the church instead of listening to the claims of Christ preached from the church. Also you get better sound and wise advise from your brothers and sisters in Christ than some God hatting pagan who inclanations are against the wisdom of God. I hope you read your proverbs daily a proverb for each day of the month.
2nd. Eph 4 was an example on how the church works. not on tiething please listen to the post. I mention Eph. 4 because you seem to be getting your idea of what christianity is from the television and not from the local bible believing congragation.
Sorry If I may have offended you.
el kabong
No I am not a baptist but a Presbyterian from the puritan calvinist type.
Edited by - clash_city_rockers on 17 November 2002 5:6:20
