There is Intelligence in Israel!

by Perry 40 Replies latest jw friends

Realist

question...are you aware that the israeils are building settlements in the arab territories although that is illegal to international law? are you aware that under barak the number of settlements increased?
it has been the israeils that broke all international agreements.
the solution would be to remove the settlements from arab territory and give the palestinians their long deserved state. if they would continue to attack israel than israel could close the borders as they do already (including a wall around the arab territories)
about the palestinian state...here is what the UN has to say about the issue...
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The Palestine problem became an international issue towards the end of the First World War with the disintegration of the Turkish Ottoman Empire. Palestine was among the several former Ottoman Arab territories which were placed under the administration of Great Britain under the Mandates System adopted by the League of Nations pursuant to the League's Covenant (Article 22) .
All but one of these Mandated Territories became fully independent States, as anticipated. The exception was Palestine where, instead of being limited to "the rendering of administrative assistance and advice" the Mandate had as a primary objective the implementation of the "Balfour Declaration" issued by the British Government in 1917, expressing support for "the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people".
During the years of the Palestine Mandate, from 1922 to 1947, large-scale Jewish immigration from abroad, mainly from Eastern Europe took place, the numbers swelling in the 1930s with the notorious Nazi persecution of Jewish populations. Palestinian demands for independence and resistance to Jewish immigration led to a rebellion in 1937, followed by continuing terrorism and violence from both sides during and immediately after World War II. Great Britain tried to implement various formulas to bring independence to a land ravaged by violence. In 1947, Great Britain in frustration turned the problem over to the United Nations.
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before the first WW the territory was inhabited almost exclusively by arabs. it is as much a sovereign territory as egypt, jordan etc..
Realist

http://www.un.org/Depts/dpa/ngo/history.html
Perry

Palestinians have no unique culture, no language known as Palestinian, and are indistinguishable from Jordanians, Syrians or Iraqis for that matter. In fact, the term was given to the region by Rome after a smashing blow was delivered to in 70AD. This was merely a psychological attempt to erase the Jewish culture and identity by naming it after a people who the Jews conquered centuries before. By the time of the Jewish revolt and the Roman victory, the Philistines had long been extinct as a people.
So why is there no outcry when Britian created other nations in the post war years of 1919? According to the UN mandate principle of paragraphs 1 and 2 of ARTICLE 22 OF THE COVENANT OF THE LEAGUE OF NATIONS:
1. To those colonies and territories which as a consequence of the late war have ceased to be under the sovereignty of the States which formerly governed them and which are inhabited by peoples not yet able to stand by themselves under the strenuous conditions of the modern world, there should be applied the principle that the well-being and development of such peoples form a sacred trust of civilization and that securities for the performance of this trust should be embodied in this Covenant.

2. The best method of giving practical effect to this principle is that the tutelage of such peoples should be entrusted to advanced nations who by reason of their resources, their experience or their geographical position can best undertake this responsibility, and who are willing to accept it, and that this tutelage should be exercised by them as Mandatories on behalf of the League.
The region was made up of little more than waring tribal entities. Britian choose the mose capable of them and made them nations, plain and simple
before the first WW the territory was inhabited almost exclusively by arabs. it is as much a sovereign territory as egypt, jordan etc..
Not true.
"Still, Jews persisted in Jerusalem , even numbering around 40,000 by the turn of the 20th century, while arabs numbered only around 7000." - Travel Guide To Palestine and Syria, published in 1906 by Karl Baedeker. The book also says, "The number of Jews has risen greatly in the last few decades in spite of the fact that they are forbidden to immigrate or to possess landed property."
The reality is that the Arabs poured into Israel after the 1967 war when they took care of business in a very surprising crushing defeat over several invading Arab nations. The irony is that the quality of life and degree of freedom was better for Arabs in Israel than in many of their their native countries. Only then did we start hearing about Israeli bigotry and how Jerusalem was Islams holiest of cities. It was all propaganda. If Jerusalem was so damn holy to them, why werent there more of them there?
During that war, a
ccording to official records of the League of Nations and Arab census figure 539,000 Arabs left Israel at the urging of 7 converging Arab armies so that they would not be in the way of their attack. They promised the fleeing Arabs they would return and move into the Jews' houses after the anticipated successful annihilation of the Jews.
We know that 850,000 Jews were ejected from the Arab countries where they had lived for hundreds of years. This included successful people whose property and assets, including community assets were immediately confiscated. 750,000 penniless Jews from Arab countries fled to Israel.
This was a virtual exchange of population. The Jewish refugees were immediately accepted by the new State of Israel. They were provided with shelter (albeit temporary tents) food and clothing.
The Arab refugees who had migrated to various Arab nations were not similarly well received. They were regarded not as Arab brothers but as unwelcome migrants who were not to be trusted. - Emanuel A. Winston, a Middle East analyst & commentator
An honest review of history reveals that the British made the best choice about who was most qualified to govern Israel (palestine). Doubtless other bedouin tribes got left out of the leadership role in their territories than became sovereign nations. Why then are they not hollering and screaming about the loss of their supposed sovereignty?
Simple.... religious bigotry by the Arabs. Arab nations have left the Palestinian people to suffer and to foster hatred toward their government because of a cultural difference.
The "Palestinian" leadership has been playing the same shell game that Saddam has been playing, saying one thing and doing another. They make agreements with Israel and then continue to blow up women and children with bombs and scream oppression when Israel acts to protect its national interests. The Arabs want to destroy Israel....end of story.
I have absolutely no respect for Arafat and his murderous campaign of terror on the Jewish people, especially after he rejected the land for peace deal that Clinton helped broker at the last summit at Camp David.
the solution would be to remove the settlements from arab territory and give the palestinians their long deserved state. if they would continue to attack israel than israel could close the borders as they do already (including a wall around the arab territories)
They have already attempted to do this several times. Next suggestion?
Realist

perry,
i read VERY different numbers...published by the BBC
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/static/in_depth/world/2001/israel_and_palestinians/timeline/1897.stm
25,000 jews next to half a million arabs in 1900.
to the solution...when exactly did the jews remove the settlements from arab territory and gave them their own state? I must have slept while that happened
since most of the water resources are on arab land the jews will never fullfill their obligations as cited in the various treaties. sadly no one dares to force them to withdraw.
Satanus

Intelligence, eh? If the US learned from it, it could solve it's race problem by simply relocating it's black population back to africa, where it came from originally. Israel, the world champion propagandist.
SS
Perry

Population of Ottoman Palestine
The population of Ottoman "Palestine" is difficult to estimate, because:
1. There was no administrative district of Palestine. Turkish census figures were for various districts, including the Jerusalem, Acco and Nablus districts for example. The Acre district included areas in Lebanon, outside the modern borders of Palestine in which there were no Jews.
2. Turkish census figures did not include Bedouins (estamted at a few thousand) and foreign subjects, of which there were about 10,000 Jews.
3. Both Arabs and Jews avoided the Turkish census. Foreigners who were without residence permits did not want to make their presence known. Arabs and Jews wished to avoid taxes and conscription.
As the data are ambiguous, pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist sources give different estimates. The Turkish census for 1878 listed 462,465 Turkish subjects in the Jerusalem, Nablus and Acre districts: 403,795 Muslims (including Druze), 43,659 Christians and 15,011 Jews. In addition, there were at least 10,000 Jews with foreign citizenship (recent immigrants to the country), and several thousand Muslim Arab nomads (Bedouin) who were not counted as Ottoman subjects.
By 1908, according to Dr. Hala Fattah (http://www.jerusalemites.org/2_6_1.html) :" when Sultan Abdul-Hamid II's rule collapsed, it was estimated that the Jewish population of Palestine had risen to 80,000, three times its number in 1882, when the first entry restrictions were imposed." Other estimates put Jewish prewar population as low as 40,000 and as high as 100,000.
According to Arjan El Fassed in 1912 there were only 40,000 Jews and 525,000 Arabs in Palestine.
The war reduced both Arab and Jewish populations to some extent.
So, for a variety of reasons, political, criminal, financial, and lack of adequet adminstrative integrity, the polulation of Palestine is difficult to determine from so-called "official" sources. Even so, Baedeker does not contridict the above sources at placing a Jerusalem jewish population at 40,000. In fact, I tend to place more credibility on his figures because of his interest in printing accurate travel guides, (which he is famous for even to this day) as opposed to other sources possibly jaded by geo-political agendas....especially in the relative pre-war calm of 1906.
to the solution...when exactly did the jews remove the settlements from arab territory and gave them their own state? I must have slept while that happened
JERUSALEM (CNN) August 18, 2002 -- Israel offered Sunday to withdraw from the West Bank city of Bethlehem and areas in Gaza if Palestinian security forces can rein in militants in those areas.
The above is just the latest of dozens and dozens of offers spanning decades to withdraw in exchange for peace. Without a willingness on the part of Arabs in these areas to stop murdering, what good would it do to pull out if it will only empower the enemy of the state to re-group and continue to blow up women and children?
The reality is that Arafat was offered virtually everything the PLO have always said they wanted. He rejected it and went home from Camp David to prepare for war. The PLO responded with another suicide attack.
The problem in your reasoning is that you are trying to make sense out of people who only want genocide. You will never make sense of nor appease these kinds of people. The Israeli's have used your same faulty logic and they have only been attacked for it. I truly hope they stop judging their neighbors by some wacky universal standard of reason but view their neighbors hatred and agression from the context of their cultural concepts of what is appropriate. When they do, they will realize that the idea of annilating the State of Israel isn't viewed as deviant or unnatural at all to them. Agreements to them is just another theater of war.
Next suggestion?
Perry

Saint Satan,
That has got to be the stupidest thing you've said in a long time. Show me where our black citizens are dedicated to the destruction of the United States?
Uhhhh, you can't can you? Didn't think so.
Apples and Oranges. Jeez Satan.... I thought you were the father of the lie and not a comedian.
Perry

By the way Satan,
You gonna chime in with a suggestion for peace or just spout hatred?
Satanus

You gonna chime in with a suggestion for peace or just spout hatred?

Give back palestinian land, houses, businesses.
Give palestinians the services and rights that are given to jews. Running water to their homes was cut off most of the time, while their jewish neighbors continued to have water. Give them the right to vote. It is claimed to be a democracy, right? Americans give blacks the right to vote. Give them the rights to work.
Jews, arabs and christians got along quite before european and new york jews started taking it all away from arabs. Give some back, and the destroy israel retoric would disappear. Arabs make a lot of noise, but jews are much more aggressive than arabs are. Israel never abided by the un 1948 partition. It overstepped it from the beginning. It made raids on palestinian towns outside the un partition. When terrified arabs left some towns, israelis poisoned their water supplies by dumping in typhus and cholera bacteria, making it tough for any to return. Who has been showing hate?
SS
Edited by - saintsatan on 15 November 2002 12:6:35
Satanus

You gonna chime in with a suggestion for peace or just spout hatred?
Why is it that anyone opposing oppression of palestinians is accused of spouting hatred, whereas those who opposed south african apartheid were considered righteous? Israel treats palestinians worse than sa treated it's black population. Sa didn't use helicopter gunships, tanks and bulldozers on the neighborhoods of dissenters. We do have a short memory, don't we? Or, are there two standards, one for jews, and another for gentiles? Just like in the bible.
SS
Edited by - saintsatan on 15 November 2002 11:57:32

There is Intelligence in Israel!

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