There is Intelligence in Israel!

by Perry 40 Replies latest jw friends

Perry

Give back palestinian land, houses, businesses.
I think someone has been watching a little too much Al Jazeera TV. You obviously read nothing in this thread. But, just pretending that giving Arab people more Israeli land will quell their thirst for the genocide of Jews, and since you offer nothing new, I'll go along a bit.
This point must have escaped your attention, but there has NEVER in history been a Palestinian state ever. However, there HAS been a state of Israel in Judea and Samaria (now called West Bank by many). Jews were always a presence there, throughout the ages, and were a MAJORITY in East Jerusalem up through the first third of the XX century, until being driven out by the Arabs (two-thirds majority of the city population being Jewish, the rest being divided between Arabs, Greeks and others). The myth of "traditionally Arab East Jerusalem" is just that - a myth.
Incidentally, those Arab countries, while in posession of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, never even thought about creating some kind of a state for the people they forcefully kept in refugee camps. Nice relatives they got there.
This might be another shock for you, but here goes. There IS a Palestinian state in existence today. It occupies 75% of geographical Palestine (which was promised to the Jews by the Balfour Declaration and the League of Nations conference), and its population is about 80% "Palestinian Arabs". Yes, you guessed it, the name is Jordan. So why is it necessary to tear off another third of the land away from the already small Israel? Could it just be a military tactic to destroy Israel entirely ....naaaa couldn't be that.
But apparently it is. The answer lies in PLO's own documents from the 60s, 70s up to right now. It states in their documents (in black and white) that there is no Palestinian people (they are a part of the larger Arab people), and the only reason to demand a state next to Israel is to create a base for the further attacks on the "Zionist Entity". Arafat was openly saying this as recently as in 1996 in Stockholm. The same logic is still in play: just look at official Arab maps of Palestine (including PA's own emblems and textbooks). The Arab Palestine takes up the whole region, with no Israel in site. And these are the people Israel is forced to negotiate with! You can read the latest speeches by Arafat and others at www.memri.org, translated in English.
The number of Jewish refugees expelled from Arab countries after 1948 was about the same or greater than that of displaced Arabs (mostly moved out of the way by their own armies in the war of agression against Israel in 1948), but those Jews were integrated into Israeli citizenry. On the contrary, displaced Arabs were never allowed by any Arab country to integrate into their societies. Such exchanges of population were a common occurance after WWII, numbering in the millions. Germans moving to Germany and Greek/Turk exchange are just two examples. The blame for leaving displaced Arabs in a miserable condition rests squarely on the shoulders of Arab countries, who have been using those people as pawns for the past 50 years.
Jews, arabs and christians got along quite before european and new york jews started taking it all away from arabs.
That is utter racist bullshit. You know absolutely nothing about history. Jews were not even allowed to own property under the Ottoman empire
{QUOTE]Give some back, and the destroy israel retoric would disappear.
And, I have some nice real estate in Mr. Rogers neighborhood I'd like to show you.
Israel never abided by the un 1948 partition. It overstepped it from the beginning. It made raids on palestinian towns outside the un partition.
The territories I'm assuming you speak of, were won by Israel in a defensive war from Egypt, Jordan and Syria, and according to international law, such lands rightfully belong to the victorious defender. Russia's city of Kaliningrad and Kuril Islands are but two examples of that. So, the notion of "illegally occupied territories" is pure spin. BTW, the infamous UN resolutions also do NOT require Israel to give them all up. See above links.
When terrified arabs left some towns, israelis poisoned their water supplies by dumping bacteria in them. Who has been showing hate?
SS[/QUOTE]
Oh really, do you have proof of this? Even if it were true, would you like to compare the number of terrorist acts perpertrated by Israelis and Arabs? Can you really compare one act of a deranged individual to the orchestrated campaign of deliberate terror?
Next Suggestion?
pettygrudger

Why then is Isreal - NOT Palestine in violation of at least 10 different UN resolutions with their behaviour?
Just wondering.
also, it is also a well documented fact, and although I don't have the evidence at work, that the Jews began gobbling up with money Arab properties around the turn of the century - they were not a majority prior at least in quite a few decades. After world war II, after the holocaust, the international community turned a blind eye to what the Jews then did in fact do to the Palestinian people. Most International countries did not want the Jews, they were refuges. So, they began a pilgrimage back to their "motherland", and in doing so committed as many grevious disgusting diabolical crimes against the Palestines, crimes that were photographed & well documented (however not largely publicized - to much Jew sympathy because of the holocaust).
They committed autrocities and drove the Palestinians from their homes. This is fact - documented fact. Isreal is not in the right on this. Maybe they are if you go all the way back to bible times to determine sovreignty.
Truth be told, Isreal has broken themselves all treaties they have made. They do this, against the UN and the global community at large. USA is the only country that dare stand behind them, even as they themselves violate treaty after treaty. They are supported with US dollars & military equipment.

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November 1998
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BIO ARAB BOMBS BEING PREPARED BY ISRAEL.
ISRAEL PURSUES NAZI AND APARTHEID BIO-GERM RESEARCH
MER - Washington - 15 Nov:
While the U.S./Israeli approach to bombing the Arab Middle Eastinto submission takes on new dimensions previously unthinkable, the level of hypocrisy and duplicity continues to rise in tandem.
In recent years credible reports not only about Israel's huge nuclear weapons program, including neutron people-killer bombs, but also about major chemical and biological weapons programs, have been coming into public view.
Now another major development is seeping out. To many it may at first sound like a hoax, but this shocking story is from today's THE SUNDAY TIMES, the same newspaper that in the 1980s broke into the open the details of Israel's nuclear weapons program:
ISRAEL PLANNING 'ETHNIC' BOMB AS SADDAM CAVES IN
by Uzi Mahnaimi and Marie Colvin
ISRAEL is working on a biological weapon that would harmArabs but not Jews, according to Israeli military and westernintelligence sources. The weapon, targeting victims by ethnicorigin, is seen as Israel's response to Iraq's threat of chemicaland biological attacks.
Yesterday Saddam Hussein, the Iraqi leader, backed awayfrom the brink of war and agreed to resume co-operationwith the inspection teams seeking his suspected chemical andbiological weapons plants.
Kofi Annan, the United Nation secretary-general, said hebelieved Iraq had met UN requirements. As Britain andAmerica stood by to bomb Saddam, however, Tony Blair'soffice said compliance must be unconditional.
The White House, which is threatening Iraq with the biggestonslaught since the Gulf war, said President Bill Clinton'sadvisers were assessing whether Iraq's offer was adequate.The Pentagon is ready to bomb within days.
Last week Downing Street warned Labour MPs that Saddam could be only weeks away from completing the construction of offensive biological weapons mounted on Scud missiles. Israel was hit by Scuds during the Gulf war and fears it would be the prime target.
In developing their "ethno-bomb", Israeli scientists are tryingto exploit medical advances by identifying distinctive genescarried by some Arabs, then create a genetically modifiedbacterium or virus.
The intention is to use the ability of viruses and certainbacteria to alter the DNA inside their host's living cells. Thescientists are trying to engineer deadly micro-organisms thatattack only those bearing the distinctive genes.
The programme is based at the biological institute in NesTziyona, the main research facility for Israel's clandestinearsenal of chemical and biological weapons.
A scientist there said the task was hugely complicatedbecause both Arabs and Jews are of semitic origin. But headded: "They have, however, succeeded in pinpointing aparticular characteristic in the genetic profile of certain Arabcommunities, particularly the Iraqi people." The disease couldbe spread by spraying the organisms into the air or puttingthem in water supplies.
The research mirrors biological studies conducted by SouthAfrican scientists during the apartheid era and revealed intestimony before the truth and reconciliation commission.
The idea of a Jewish state conducting such research has already provoked outrage in some quarters because of parallels with the genetic experiments of Dr Josef Mengele, the Nazi scientist at Auschwitz.
Dedi Zucker, a member of knesset, the Israeli parliament,denounced the research yesterday. "Morally, based on ourhistory, and our tradition and our experience, such a weaponis monstrous and should be denied," he said.
Some experts said that although the concept of an ethnicallytargeted weapon was feasible, the practical aspects ofcreating one were enormous.
Dr Daan Goosen, head of a South African chemical andbiological warfare plant, said his team was ordered in the1980s to develop a "pigmentation weapon" to target onlyblack people. He said the team discussed spreading a diseasein beer, maize or even vaccinations but never managed todevelop one.
However, a confidential Pentagon report warned last yearthat biological agents could be genetically engineered toproduce new lethal weapons. William Cohen, the Americandefence secretary, revealed that he had received reports ofcountries working to create "certain types of pathogens thatwould be ethnic-specific". A senior western intelligencesource confirmed last week that Israel was one of thecountries Cohen had in mind.
The "ethno-bomb" claims have been given further credence inForeign Report, a Jane's publication that closely monitorssecurity and defence matters. It reports unnamed SouthAfrican sources as saying Israeli scientists have used some ofthe South African research in trying to develop an "ethnicbullet" against Arabs.
It also says Israelis discovered aspects of the Arab geneticmake-up by researching on "Jews of Arab origin, especiallyIraqis".
The British Medical Association has become so concernedabout the lethal potential of genetically based biologicalweapons that it has opened an investigation, which is due toreport in January.
Dr Vivienne Nathanson, who organised the research, said:"With an ethnically targeted weapon, you could even hitgroups within a population. The history of warfare, in whichmany conflicts have an ethnic factor, shows us howdangerous this could be."
Porton Down, Britain's biological defence establishment, saidlast week that such weapons were theoretically possible. "Wehave reached a point now where there is an obvious need foran international convention to control biological weapons,"said a spokesman.
Additional reporting: Matthew Campbell and Hugh McManners

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Realist

perry,
the numbers you posted seem similar to that posted by BBC (by the way i found them also in an encyclopedia and 2 other websites)
how can you possibly view the arabs responsible? it was their land...it was taken away from them without compensation...
the arabs are trying to defend themselfs and their country...
during WWII such behaviour against the germans (guerilla attacks etc.) was viewed as absolutely legal and encouraged by the allies...
you also didn't answer my question...when did the jews give the arabs their country? to my knowledge that never happened so far.
do you have jewish roots or what causes your lets say somewhat extravagant view of the situation?
Carmel

Not taking sides, but as a note of interest. When the Arabs fled Isreal in 1948 at the request of surrounding Arab govenrments, the resulting vacancies were protected by the new Israeli govenment for a period of fifty years. Any Arab who wanted to return during that half century lay claim to his/her property, and, I might add, the proof of ownership was fairly uncomplicated considering the country runs on British law which could have made it nearly impossible. Several thousand such reclaimations occured in Haifa alone as well as Akka and many of these Arabs are quite well to do business people now. Unlike those who chose to remain out of the country, waiting for the promises of the Jordanians, Syrians et al to come to pass. In 1998 the period for reclaimation closed and properties that had been "saved" for the Arab owners were sold to the occupants, most Jewish, but many Arab Christians, Muslims and Druz had also moved in and used the vacant land and structures. So with all the finger pointing at Israel, I doubt very much that our "enlightened" leadership would have exercized such consiseration for the "vanquished".
carmel
Perry

perry,
the numbers you posted seem similar to that posted by BBC (by the way i found them also in an encyclopedia and 2 other websites)
how can you possibly view the arabs responsible? it was their land...it was taken away from them without compensation...

You can keep asking that question all you want. The reality is that the answer is already illustrated in the information I provided. It was Ottomon Empire land. Giant territories were divided up after WWI to create vast Arab countries admist the multitudous waring Arab tribes. Your characterization of the situation simply doesn't match history. Countries were carved out of basically where nothing resembling a country previously existed. One of the territories was Israel. Because of a religious and cultural difference, Arabs have tried to remove that duly commissioned country ever since.
the arabs are trying to defend themselfs and their country...
Wrong. By the PLO's own admission, they characterize the resistence as an attempt to simply destroy Israel and illegally unite that land to Jordon. They readily admit that the term "Palestinian people" is a fiction.
during WWII such behaviour against the germans (guerilla attacks etc.) was viewed as absolutely legal and encouraged by the allies...
you also didn't answer my question...when did the jews give the arabs their country? to my knowledge that never happened so far.
See above
do you have jewish roots or what causes your lets say somewhat extravagant view of the situation?
Irish/Italian .....no jewish roots that I know of. I simply don't like people who lie and spin their way into a political agenda. I got my fill of lying spin as a JW. Many politically motivated arabs have done this for so long that the core issues have become so convoluted that the average person is totally unaware of the actual background. An honest review of the Arab - Israeli conflict shows the issue to be really quite simple.
Perry

pettygrudger,
The Oslo agreements and the Wye River accords specifically require "both" parties, Israel and the Palestinians, to take specific actions. Israel has upheld its part of the agreements by relinquishing land purchased with Jewish blood in an effort to defend itself.
The Palestinian side has violated the letter and intent of virtually every agreement to which it has been a party. Statements by Palestinian and Arab leaders show they have no intention of coexisting peacefully with Israelis. Many of their religious leaders preach that Jews are infidels who deserve to die. These are not the voices of peace and reconciliation, but of war and eradication.
Israel has made tangible, critical, painful and irreversible concessions of territory crucial to its survival. In return, it is promised intangible, vague, uncertain and open-ended "guarantees,''
Israel should prepare for another war, as should America.....which is coming as surely as the next Palestinian broken promise.
Realist

ok lets try this again...
according to your own numbers....the land that became israel was originally inhabited by arabs...the arabs had to leave in order to make space for the jews that moved there and to form israel.
woudl you agree with that?
Perry

according to your own numbers....the land that became israel was originally inhabited by arabs
Wrong. The numbers I presented show an overwhelming majority of Jews in Jerusalem by 1906, in spite of anti-semitic Ottoman laws prohibiting them to own landed property etc. The land that was allocated by the British to eventually form the state of Israle was simply given to the group with the best liklihood of forming a modern state. This was in harmony with the principles set forth within the Balfour Declaration and article 22 of the League covenant. It was the same criteria used when choosing which waring arab tribe tribe would get the blessing to move forward with other modern states.
The Churchill whitepaper of 1922 reiterated the right of Jews to a homeland in Palestine. In an effort to appease palestine arabs 75% of Jewish Palestine was torn away at this time and given to the Hashemi family as an independent Arab state now known as Jordan.
...the arabs had to leave in order to make space for the jews that moved there and to form israel.
Complete non-sense. Arabs were free to live wherever they chose, own property, and were protected under Israeli law.
BTW, where is the outcry from "palestinians" regarding 75% "their" land given to the Hashemi family to create Jordan? Were the Hashemi family a majority in that region? Absolutely not. .
It doesn't make sense unless you understand that the whole issue is born out of hatred from the Arabs. Arafat and other PLO leaders openly admit that the whole issue is a farce designed to destroy a duly commissioned state.
Why you have a problem with the formation of Israel and not the formation of other states in the region is quite puzzling. Your logic simply falls apart in light of evidence
Realist

Perry,
ok i don't get it...
you wrote:
As the data are ambiguous, pro-Zionist and anti-Zionist sources give different estimates. The Turkish census for 1878 listed 462,465 Turkish subjects in the Jerusalem, Nablus and Acre districts: 403,795 Muslims (including Druze), 43,659 Christians and 15,011 Jews. In addition, there were at least 10,000 Jews with foreign citizenship (recent immigrants to the country), and several thousand Muslim Arab nomads (Bedouin) who were not counted as Ottoman subjects.
400.000+x muslims : 25.000 Jews.
where is the catch?
imagine the jews would have selected italy as their future state (before it became independent from the Austrian empire)...would you consider it ok for them to lets say remove italiens from calabria in order to built their own state there? no ethnic group will accept something like that.
Edited by - realist on 17 November 2002 13:58:26

There is Intelligence in Israel!

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