Thinking about Bill Bowen...

by Pathofthorns 112 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  RevMalk

  Haha, DannyBear, I have nothing against you, but your comments seem way out in left field. I didn't get any of what you got from hawkaw's comments. He called him a 'nice man', and said he can't thank him enough, but that the counsel didn't do their job. Or did I mess something?

  I don't see any games being played here. Are we on the same board? Does anyone else see games, or whatever Danny sees?

  And what games is Grits playing?

  Damn you Grits! How many times have I told you no balls in the house???

  Brummie.....I know, I'm a nasty nasty man....I guess there's more than two witnesses here, so the Elders have me by the........toes?

  Good Morning everyone!
• 

  DannyBear

  Hawkaw,

  ***And if you think for one second that Penton's creditibility is not damaged by what transpired on this board, then your head is completely buried in the sand.***

  Once again you make statements that denegrate other's, even though I never even mentioned Jim Penton. What's up with that?

  Following your line of reasoning, Bill Bowen better never take the stand! Man what a field day the defendants will have. Yet never a mention about his culpability from you. What is good for the goose is..........

  Unfortunately your advice and commentary are obviously biased. So anyone that takes an alternate view, is fodder for your rebuke. This is typical of so many activists, it is the reason many choose to simply stay out of the lime light. It is not worth the effort, just because people like you, Grits, Undiss, RevMalk, cannot accept anything less than full compliance.

  Better not speak the truth, better not exspress your honest opionion, you might not get to testify. Well my friend all the prep, all the coaching in the world, does not change the truth. Is it the truth your looking for, or just well stated testimony?

  Danny
• 

  abbagail

  Thanks Hawk for the follow-up/clarification.

  Since I asked Hawk the question, why is DannyBear foaming-at-the-mouth?

  Hey Rev! You mean I can't play basketball in the living room No Mo? Aw shucks!
• 

  hawkaw

  I used the name to try and get accross my point about how one damages their credibility in court. And yes your head appears to be completely buried in the sand on this one.

  And yes I have told Mr. Bowen, both in writing and verbally that he may have "damaged" himself as a witness wrt this insane incident that he should never have started in the first place. Of course Bill also has other major roles in the lamestream press and running a web site.

  My humble advice is based on 18 years of being a witness in court and hearings and what counsel has done to me.

  You can take it or leave it. And like I said before - you want to slam Bowen - please feel free to let him have it.

  All I am asking is that these guys don't use their names. I have no problems with them speaking their minds or giving opinions. Just sometimes their "opinions" (which is not the same as a "fact" or the actual "truth") or their personal and unprofessional attacks tend to get them into a lot trouble.

  hawk
• 

  Simon

  Can we end this yet?
• 

  JT

  danny

  ck your email
• 

  RevMalk

  ....just because people like you, Grits, Undiss, RevMalk, cannot accept anything less than full compliance.

  This is simply not true. I never once even made an inclination towards this ludicrous idea. I simply stated my opinion that enough was enough. You were on the other thread, you surely must have read my comment that I wish this never happened and that I wish Bill had never said what he said. I don't care that he has the opinion (or even facts), I just don't think it got him any popularity votes. Unfortunately, it's sad, but sometimes you have to play Pontius Pilate when you're in a position such as Bill's, and he'll learn that over time. Is it right that he has to go with the flow sometimes? Absolutely not, it's inherently wrong. But that's what happens. Now, do you think my opinion of all this is popular with Bill? Probably not. Does Bill give me crap over it? Absolutely not. Even though I've stated over and over again, even on the silentlambs forums that I do not just swallow everything he says, and that I do not agree 100% of the time with the man, I agree with the cause. It's noble, honorable, and pure. Does that sound like 100% compliance to the man? I don't think so. But it is 100% compliance to the cause, and to the abused (which obviously is the cause). I work side by side with Bill every day of my life, and we get along just fine, even though we may have differences of opinion. Obviously I don't hold any sort of position of authority, but I do work with the man.When I disagree with him, he listens, whether he takes the advice or not, he shows me respect (except when I want sleep, haha), and sometimes he even takes a bit of advice from me! This 100% compliance thing is unfounded and ridiculous, I know this for a fact. I certainly don't expect it from you either, and furthermore I'm not in a position to even request it. Again, your comments are frivolous, unfounded, biased and do not contain an ounce of fact. You, as most people on here grab at any little straw you can to throw in this direction, and all it does is make us all look insane. So, again, if people are going to give their opinions on these topics, please at least get your facts straight first, you'll only be doing harm to everyone involved otherwise.
• 

  RevMalk

  	Can we end this yet? Simon, I know you keep asking for this to end, and I keep agreeing, but it's very difficult to just stop when someone else makes a remark either attacking you personally, or a remark that just screams for a reply, haha. I'm trying really hard. I left for a few weeks hoping it would blow over, and I came back and it's still here. I think this is going to cause alot of people to leave for good. Maybe that's good, maybe it's bad, I don't know. But I really think that in order to end it once and for all is to go grab that big mallet in your closet and slam it down on this entire mess. Demand that it end. This is your site, your board, "Your can do it!". I know you're probably not wanting to do that because you are a man who appreciates free speech, but it's the only way man. Like we were saying on another recent thread, it's doing no-one any good, only harm, no matter what side of this ridiculous fence you happen to be on. Again I will say this, and I will try and practice what I preach, for Simon's sake, and per his request, we should all respect his wishes and talk about something else, maybe we can all prepare for the Watchtower study this Sunday. That's my 2 cents. John Ruskin, 19th-century British critic and author
• 

  waiting

  I really don't belive that Bowen has ever taken The Stand in a trial, has he? Obviously, he would be considered as having a HUGE "chip on his shoulder." He doesn't have an expert's credentials, either as an author, degreed, or mental health field. He's never suggested otherwise, btw.

  Barb Anderson doesn't post on the net either..........and her written evaluations of the WT have been introduced into Court in Canada for the judge to ponder. I would think that if Barb posted here - on whatever thread - with her real name.......then the opposing side would have the right to demand an explanation. And Jehovah help her if she was less than perfect. It's not heresay....it's her written words in public. Of course, she could lie.....but again, Jehovah help her if they find out.

  I agree fully, Dr. Penton's stance as an *unbiased* xjw male was hurt by his posting here - for a variety of reasons, imho. It's a shame, really -- but better to know ahead what can be uncovered by the opposing attorneys.

  The opposing attorney is trained to pick apart all things if possible. That's what he looks for - that's what he's paid big bucks (or Jehovah's salvation) for doing. If he can't find anything, he'll try his lowbrow best to discredit the witness just for being human. And if he's too busy to look, well, that's why they pay legal assistants....to find the chink in the armor.

  Good points, Hawk. Thank you.

  waiting

  edited to add: I really don't know if Bowen's testified as an expert witness or not. But if he has, then I think the last month will have muddied his background. Too bad.

  Edited by - waiting on 22 November 2002 10:51:24
• 

  hawkaw

  No waiting, he has never testified as an expert in this particular field nor is he an expert in the points you described - at least my my mind.

  He may be able to give direct evidence on certain things - such as this is my original copy of the Organization book and this is what it says on page ___ . They may let him give opinion evidence and be an expert on what page __ means of the Flock book since he was an overseer.

  But again, you are very correct to my point on "damage" and as I have said before, the only one that appears left standing that doesn't appear damaged Barb (and oh .... ummm ... of course you, "waiting").

  Damn ..... But as was seen in the Boer trial and will be observed in the Berry trial - its the Watchtower's own evidence that kills them, with the statements of a few good elders who realize what should have happened, a victim's excellent testimony and the outstanding testimony of expert mental health professionals.

  hawk