UnD, Thank you for a nice reply.
But, I think I see the source of your confusion here. I did a word search on the Bible Gateway and here is what I came up with for Jude 1:4;
4. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ. (KJV)
4. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men, who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus Christ. (NKJV)
4. For there are certain men crept in privily, even they who were of old written of beforehand unto this comdemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (ASV)
4. I say this because some godless teachers have wormed their way in among you, saying that after we become Christians we can do just as we like without fear of God's punishment. The fate of such people was written long ago, for they have turned against our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (LVB)
4. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. (NIV)
4. For admission has been secretly gained by some who long ago were designated for this condemnation, ungodly persons who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (RSV)
4. Dear , I was always very eager to write you about the salvation we share. But, I felt forced to write you because some men have come in secretly. I am begging you to fight for the faith which God passed on to the holy people once for all time. These men don't want God. Long ago it was written that they would be condemned. They are turning away from the gracious love of our God to orgies, rejecting Jesus Christ, our only Lord and Master. (SIM)
4. For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (NAS)
4. Certain people have infiltrated among you, who were long ago marked down for condemnation on this account; without any reverence they pervert the grace of our God to debauchery and deny all religion, rejecting our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (NJB)
4. For there have been some intruders, who long ago were designated for this condemnation, godless persons, who pervert the grace of our God into licentiousness and who deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ. (NAB)
There seems to be quite a difference between the KJV and others here. Which is right? Even the JWs Bible, the NWT says: "proving false to our only Owner and Lord, Jesus Christ." Let's see if we can resolve this with scripture.
1 Corinthians 6:20. For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. (KJV)
We are bought for by Christs death. God supplied that to us, therefore, we glorify God.
1 Corinthians 7:23. Ye are bought with a price; be not ye the servants of men. (KJV)
2 Peter 2:1. But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. (KJV)
Who bought and paid the price for us? Jesus. Does that make him God?
John 3:16. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (KJV)
If not for the flavor left over from the KJV, Jude 4 would clearly be seen as applying only to Jesus. Remember, Lord originally had various meanings in Greek. Jesus paid for our sins by his death and has been placed in a position of authority by the Father, which he identifies as "the only true God." If he is both the only true owner and only true God, then the Oneness people have it right and there could not have been any God in heaven for 33 1/2 years as Jesus grew and walked the earth. That is unbiblical.
I see it as saying that we only have Jesus as Owner, or Master, if you prefer, because he is the one appointed by and placed in authority by his Father, God. No one else can lay claim to being the Messiah, only Jesus. But, that does not make him God, Our Master tells us there is only one true God, his Father, who placed all things in his hands and whose will Jesus did while on earth. The same Master who will place all things back in the Fathers hands after subduing all enemies of God (1 Cor, 15:27,28).
This is how I see it.
I'd like to commend you for searching through scriptures in support of your belief, even though I see it differently. You have shown an attitude I rarely run across in these trinity discussions, one of reason and peacefulness. I greatly appreciate your loving spirit. We may never agree on beliefs, but I feel we both are benefitting by making sure of what we believe.
Lew W
