Screwing up folks lives

by JT 42 Replies latest jw friends

  • Yadirf
    Yadirf

    JT,

    I'll repeat:

    Whether you still believe the Bible or not, you can't refute the fact that the Bible itself shows that those ones who shoulder the duties as teachers of God's Word would err, and as a result of such misunderstandings refinements would become necessary. Have you never read Daniel 11:35....

    How much more plain can I and the Bible make it for you? It's your prejudice that prevents you from being able to grasp the implications of the above text. The fact that such erroneous teachings result in 'stumbling' others would in itself indicate that those errors are not of a minor sort.

    .

  • hurt
    hurt

    Dear Brother Friday,

    this is not so much about teachers of the Word erring. why can't the Society admit clearly that they were in error? Why must they blame those who believed them? Did you, in all your humanity, sense some compassion in the way the Society makes these fleeting changes that affects the way people live their lives? The matter touches on the larger issue of the the freedom of the conscience. Let us assume, for our benefit, that that cosncience is bible trained. Just when does the Society allow (ha! allow!) Witnesses to use the conscience that is trained in and out for several meetings a week? The Society has fostered the thought that it is infallible. Those who dissent are disfellowshipped. Is it asking too much that they at least admit when the err?

  • Pathofthorns
    Pathofthorns

    ... and they wonder why we are all so angry?

    Path

  • waiting
    waiting

    Wow hurt.

    Some good answer. We were taught to have "Bible trained consciences" but our every move and understanding of the Bible came directly from the WTBTS. Our consciences had little to do with our lives - living & thinking the WT rules was our lives.

    The only time we were allowed to use our consciences was until the WTBTS came out with a rule. Then the WTBTS "trained" our conscience to conform to their rule.

    "and they wonder why we are all so angry?" - Path

  • JT
    JT

    Friday says

    How much more plain can I and the Bible make it for you?

    Dear Friday you failed to answer my question so I will give you a second opportunity to show the WWW

    could you show us from the bible where it states that those who god directed would get his message

    could you please show one bible text where those in charge were TEACHING THINGS IN GOD NAME to all the congregations--- when in fact it was thier opinion

  • JT
    JT
    The only time we were allowed to use our consciences was until the WTBTS came out with a rule. Then the WTBTS "trained" our conscience to conform to their rule.

    it is amazing to watch a loyal jw jump thru mental hoops in an effort to explain away what is clearly an example of a group of guys reading the bible and merely saying i think this means this and then enforcing thier view under threat of DFing anyone who disagrees with them

    Friday this is the problem if the boys in writing - wrote bible commentary it would be great for then they would be giving thier opinion on issues that the bible doesn't address

    such things as killing stealing etc, for most it is clear that the bible has a position, the problem is there are so many areas of life that the bible doesnt

    yet the boys in writing they are always attempting to pc meal different bible text together to come up with some new ruling only to find out that it was wrong day one -

    i am sure you are aware of the many times that the writers at bethel have come out with statements only to turn around and blame the rank and file jw

    one of the best articles i can think of is WHY ARE YOU LOOKING FORWARD TO 1975

    what the hell was that all about,

    you can dance all you want to--but you will never change the fact that like myself many here were Society Men/Women -

    we knew the rules, dogmas, policies, procedures scriptures that were used to support those policiesand procedures, rules and dogmas like the back of our hand

    and the problem is simple wt writers are constantly presenting material and demanding that others accept it as the veiws of god and they are just their opinions, and you will never be able to run away from that fact-

    to tell a dying person that to take a liver is the same as canablism- only to say 2 weeks later after they are dead that it is not a conscience matter is an insult to any person who stops and considers the very material that is printed

    as i stated i fully understand your view- i was one of the best at defending the errors of the wt- i like you refused to accept what the conclusion was to all the errors-

    instead i like you made up all kinds of excuses to explain away thier foolish teachings

    so as Tupac used to say

    I AIN'T MAD AT YA

  • metatron
    metatron

    'refinement', my ass!

    The Watchtower Society LIES - they lie as a matter of policy, they lie to protect themselves,
    they lie when they are cornered.

    A scandal erupted in a local congregation I know about and the Society had to send in
    a special committee to sort things out. In one meeting, the old elder from Bethel
    commented on one embarrassing aspect of the whole mess by saying "you have to lie, sometimes".
    This upset an elder friend of mine.

    The Watchtower Society is deliberately LYING about the blood transfusion issue.
    They KNOW they must change - they know they can't defend or explain the whole fraud
    with any degree of depth. READ the correspondence published at freeminds.org - in which
    they simply say, in effect, 'we're the faithful slave and you must do as we say'.

    They are killing innocent people by deliberately LYING because like the arrogant
    Pharisees they CAN'T SAY 'WE WERE WRONG'!

    How much more evil can you get than that?
    How much more Satanic can you get than that? ( Jesus called him a liar and manslayer
    - which the Society imitates!)

    And while we're at it - The Writing Dept is deliberately LYING about disfellowshipping.
    There is NO SCRIPTURE in the Bible that says 'never talk to a disfellowshipped person'
    Paul told Christians to 'admonish ' them and NOT TREAT THEM AS ENEMIES ( Thessalonians)

    They KNOW this! They have discussed this subject, privately - but REFUSED TO CHANGE
    BECAUSE OF THEIR GREEDY DESIRE FOR CONTROL.

    metatron

  • JT
    JT

    CORRECTION

    to tell a dying person that to take a liver is the same as canablism- only to say 2 weeks later after they are dead that "IT IS" a conscience matter --is an insult to any person who stops and considers the very material that is printed

  • Reborn2002
    Reborn2002

    JT, I would not expect a clear and concise response from Yadirf anytime soon. Jehovah's Witnesses and their apologists are indoctrinated and conditioned to use diversionary tactics and set up mental blocs whenever blatant examples of thier hypocrisy and contradictions are exposed.

    For decades (as direct quotes from Watchtower literature will demonstrate) the Watchtower Society has claimed to be the sole collective channel, sole organization, sole means of salvation at Armaggedon, and divinely inspired prophet through which God operates:

    *** Watchtower 1933 November 1 p.296 ***
    [Not available on 1993/1995/1999 CD-ROM]

    As surely as Jehovah has an organization on the earth, just so surely he is feeding the members of that organization by the hand of Christ Jesus. The facts prove that he uses the Watchtower publications to bring these truth to attention of his remnant ...

    *** Watchtower 1957 May 1 p.284 Trust Your Proved, Faithful Brothers ***

    RELYING ON JEHOVAH'S DIRECTIVE POWER

    14 Showing respect for Jehovah's organization really resolves itself down to our attitude toward God's visible channel and the trust that we place in our proved, faithful brothers. If we have become thoroughly convinced that this is Jehovah 's organization, that he is guiding and directing his people, then we shall not be unsettled by anything that happens.

    *** Watchtower 1960 July 15 pp.438-9 Staying Awake with the "Faithful and Discreet Slave" ***

    2 How is this divine will to be made known and brought to the attention of the worthy multitudes of men of good will toward Jehovah? Again the awake world-watchman, the "slave" class, must undertake another world educational campaign following their restoration as witnesses after 1919. Such a global work has now been under way for more than forty years and is reaching its fruitful culmination. The facts show that during this time and up to the present hour the "slave" class has served as God's sole collective channel for the flow of Biblical truth to men on earth. Just as the early Christian congregation collectively served as the channel of communication from heaven to earth, so in our time. (Eph. 3:10) Abundant spiritual food and amazing details as to the doing of God's will have been flowing through this unique channel actually as a miraculous evidence of the operation of holy spirit. The present stature of the New World society of Jehovah's witnesses, numbering nearly a million ministers in 175 lands, gives eloquent testimony that it is not the product of human ingenuity. Rather, it is the product of holy spirit operating theocratically through a tested channel , influencing the lives of dedicated men and women in all walks of life.-Zech. 4:6.

    *** Watchtower 1964 May 1 p.277-8 Building a Firm Foundation in Christ ***

    8 God's Word is the basis of our faith. As we pore over its pages our mind is communing with God's. Our faith is established and strengthened. We are "always ready to make a defense" by offering "a reason for the hope" that we hold, and we are thereby equipped to teach others the way of life. (1 Pet. 3:15; 2 Tim. 2:2) Why, though, is such emphasis placed on "accurate" knowledge? Why should such care be exercised in our study of the columns of The Watchtower , and of our application of the Scripture texts to the material under consideration? It is through the columns of The Watchtower that Jehovah provides direction and constant Scriptural counsel to his people, and it requires careful study and attention to details in order to apply this information, to get a full understanding of the principles involved, and to assure ourselves of right thinking on these matters. It is in this way that we "are thoroughly able to grasp mentally with all the holy ones" the fullness of our commission and of the preaching responsibility that Jehovah has placed on all Christians as footstep followers of his Son. Any other course would produce independent thinking and cause division. "Now I exhort you, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that you should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among you, but that you may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought." (1 Cor. 1:10) If all who are associated in the Christian organization have the mind of God and of Christ there will be unity and all will be built up in maturity of understanding.

    *** Watchtower 1965 June 1 p.352 Questions from Readers ***

    This strengthening of theocratic controls continued over a period of twenty years, from 1918 to 1938, and corresponds to the twenty-year building program of Solomon, in which time he completed Jehovah's temple, his own house, the porch of judgment and the House of the Forest of Lebanon or the armory. In 1938 Jehovah revealed this correspondency to his servants and it was published in The Watchtower in a two-part article entitled "Organization." This appeared in the issues of June 1 and 15 and proved conclusively that Jehovah's organization must henceforth be guided and directed by Jehovah's spirit through the visible governing body made up of those servants whom Jehovah himself would appoint. The concluding paragraph in this series stated: "Jehovah's theocratic government is now in full control of the people of God."

    *** Watchtower 1965 June 1 p.352 Questions from Readers ***

    New features of the work have required new methods, which has meant revisions and changes from time to time in organization instructions, but it is all a part of the advancement of Jehovah's theocratically controlled organization under the immediate direction of Jehovah God himself. Therefore, these revisions and changes are themselves fully theocratic, so they do not alter in any way the fully theocratic structure of the organization.

    *** Watchtower 1967 October 1 p.590 Finding Freedom with Jehovah's Visible Organization ***

    Jehovah poured out his spirit upon them and assigned them the responsibility of serving as his sole visible channel, through whom alone spiritual instruction was to come. Those who recognize Jehovah's visible theocratic organization, therefore, must recognize and accept this appointment of the "faithful and discreet slave" and be submissive to it.

    *** Watchtower 1972 April 1 p.197 'They Shall Know that a Prophet Was Among Them' ***

    People today can view the creative works. They have at hand the Bible, but it is little read or understood. So, does Jehovah have a prophet to help them, to warn them of dangers and to declare things to come?

    IDENTIFYING THE "PROPHET"

    These questions can be answered in the affirmative. Who is this prophet? ... This "prophet" was not one man, but was a body of men and women. It was the small group of footstep followers of Jesus Christ, known at that time as International Bible Students. Today they are known as Jehovah's Christian witnesses.

    *** Watchtower 1959 January 15 pp.39-41 Down with the Old-Up with the New! ***

    ... but, Who will be Jehovah's prophet to the nations , to speak to them everything that He should command? Who will be the modern Jeremiah? ... So who will prophesy with his message in this time of the end of the nations of this world? ... How was the question answered? ... The fact that decides the answer to the question is, not, Do all the clergy of Roman Catholicism and of Protestantism agree that Jehovah's witnesses have been and are God's prophet to the nations? but, Who discerned the divine will for Christians in this time of the world's end and offered themselves to do it? Who have undertaken God's foreordained work for this day of judgment of the nations? Who have answered the call to the work and have done it down till this year 1958? Whom has God actually used as his prophet?

    14 By the historical facts of the case Christendom is beaten back in defeat. Jehovah's witnesses are deeply grateful today that the plain facts show that God has been pleased to use them. ... It has been because Jehovah thrust out his hand of power and touched their lips and put his words in their mouths

    so you see Yadirf, the fact that the Watchtower Society makes a COMPLETE change in policy found within doctrine is quite relevant. Is it because as God's sole prophet on earth today they somehow misinterpreted the message? Or did Almighty God simply change his mind and vacillate?

    So you see Yadirf, this is of profound significance, because if the Watchtower Society is misinterpreting the message and having to alter it completely, then they are not divinely inspired. If you say that God is changing his mind, then you worship a rather indecisive deity whose policy changes brought forth by New Light are rather abrasive and harsh to innocent people who strive to live by those guidelines.

    The Watchtower Society LIES, but in your ignorance you fail to acknowledge it.

  • JT
    JT

    The Watchtower Society is deliberately LYING

    ############

    I WAS AMAZED at how many years they allowed the generation of 1914 dogma to go on

    ray pointed out that in early 1980s all the GB knew that the dogma was bogus

    to add insult to injury they come out in May of 1984 with a mag called THE GENERATION OF 1914 THAT WILL NOT DIE OFF

    yea right

    THIS dogma is one that many jw such a Friday have made life choices on thinking and believing for some 70+ yrs that this teaching was based on the bible only to be told it was only AN OPINION

    NOW THAT IS SAD

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