Hence, Christian women who are presently coping with emotional wounds resulting from an encounter with a rapist
My husband read that phrase and said, "those men are sick, sick, sick. It's an attack not an "encounter" like it was a date."
Blondie
Can You Discern What The Society Is Really Saying?
by minimus 58 Replies latest jw friends
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blondie
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minimus
Are the elders involved in making judgements here? Any articles that show that the elders need to be contacted when a rape occurs?
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Scully
hi minimus:
In understanding the application of Deuteronomy 22:23-27, we must realize that this brief account does not cover all possible situations. For example, it does not comment on the situation where the attacked woman cannot scream because she is mute, unconscious, or paralyzed with fear or is forcibly prevented from screaming by a hand or tape over her mouth. However, since Jehovah is able to weigh all factors, including motives, he deals with understanding and justice in such cases, for "all his ways are justice." (Deuteronomy 32:4) He is aware of what actually took place and of the efforts the victim put forth to fight off her attacker. Therefore, a victim who was unable to scream but otherwise did all she could under the circumstances can leave matters in Jehovah's hands. -Psalm 55;22; 1 Peter 5:7.
Even so, some Christian women who have been attacked and violated are incessantly pained by feelings of guilt. In hindsight, they feel that they should have done more to prevent the incident from happening. However, instead of blaming themselves, such victims can pray to Jehovah, ask for his help, and have confidence in his abundant loving-kindness.-Exodus 34:6; Psalm 86:5.
Hence, Christian women who are presently coping with emotional wounds resulting from an encounter with a rapist can be confident that Jehovah fully understands the painful feelings they are dealing with. God's Word assures them: "Jehovah is near to those that are broken at heart; and those who are crushed in spirit he saves." (Psalm 34:18) Further help to cope with their trauma can come from accepting the sincere understanding and gentle support of fellow believers in the Christian congregation. (Job 29:12; 1 Thessalonians 5:14) Moreover, the victims' own efforts to concentrate on positive thoughts will help them to experience "the peace of God that excels all thought"-Philippians 4:6-9.
It isn't "said", but it is said without actually saying it. I'll have to check other articles on the CD-ROM. What's more important is what they DON'T say. Things like:
- GO TO THE HOSPITAL IMMEDIATELY
- DO NOT HAVE A SHOWER AND DO NOT CHANGE YOUR CLOTHES UNTIL AFTER YOU'VE BEEN GIVEN MEDICAL ATTENTION, IT COULD DESTROY VALUABLE EVIDENCE
- HAVE THE HOSPITAL STAFF DO A RAPE KIT ON YOU, INCLUDING PHOTOGRAPHS
- MAKE A REPORT TO THE POLICE
- SEEK COUNSELLING FROM TRAINED PROFESSIONALS
These guys don't have a frikkin' clue. And that's my professional opinion.
Love, Scully
Edited by - Scully on 28 December 2002 22:46:50
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minimus
Scully, I understand your point. But, the real question from an organizational view, is, "do the elders need to be involved when a rape occurs? Is there a meeting because someone says that they were raped? I remember some years ago at an elder's school the instructor bringing out different scenarios when making a judgement. One case involved a young girl that got pregnant and SWORE that she never had sex with anyone.....To make a long story short, it was revealed that her dentist raped her while under sedation. Obviously, this case was brought up with the view that the elders needed to be involved. But I wonder about other situations.
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UnDisfellowshipped
Can You Be Disfellowshipped For Being RAPED?
I have highlighted certain extremely interesting quotes in red:
The Watchtower January 15th 1964 Issue, Pages 63-64:
"What is the position of a Christian woman... if faced with a... situation [of being attacked by a rapist]? Is she to scream even if an attacker threatens her life with a weapon?"
"But suppose the man had a weapon and threatened to kill the girl if she failed to lie down with him?"
"[The Bible] plainly says she should scream; hence, oppose the attack regardless of the circumstances."
"Thus if a Christian woman does not cry out and does not put forth every effort to flee, she would be viewed as consenting to the violation. The Christian woman who wants to keep clean and obey God's commandments, then, if faced with this situation today, needs to be courageous and to act on the suggestion made by the Scriptures and scream. Actually this counsel is for her welfare; for, if she should submit to the man's passionate wishes, she would not only be consenting to fornication or adultery, but be plagued by the shame. There would be shame, not only from the repulsiveness of the experience, but of having been coerced into breaking God's law by having sex connections with one other than a legal marriage mate."
"Of course, there is the possibility that... the attacker may strike his victim or inflict a superficial wound to silence the screams, yet would not the endurance of such physical punishment be insignificant compared to the disgrace and shame of submitting to an immoral man?"
"A Christian woman is entitled to fight for her virginity or marital fidelity to the death."
"For a Christian woman to persist in going out alone in a city or locality where women are frequently attacked is to invite trouble and needlessly endanger life."
-----------------------------------------The Watchtower June 1st 1968 Issue, Pages 345-350:
"If you are a Christian woman, what should you do if, in spite of all precautions, you are set upon by a rapist?"
"As a Christian you are under obligation to resist. This resistance includes screaming and creating as much disturbance as possible to try to frighten off the attacker and attract help."
"Resistance is imperative, because the rapist is after, not just money, but your virtue. An issue of integrity to Jehovah's laws is involved here. So by no means would it be proper quietly to submit to rape, as that would be consenting to fornication."
"Would it be different if the man had a weapon and threatened to kill you if you did not submit? No, the Scriptures plainly state that Christians are under obligation to "flee from fornication." (1 Cor. 6:18) It is true that you face the possibility of death in this case."
"Christian women are wise if they do all they can to avoid making themselves targets for rapists."
"In unsafe areas avoid traveling alone after dark."
"Also consider how you dress. If a woman adopts the provocative, suggestive styles of dress now so prevalent, she indicates that she is a woman of loose morals, and in so doing she may invite trouble."
----------------------------------------Awake! March 8th 1974 Issue, Pages 13-16:
"Scream! Scream! Scream! Is that good advice? It certainly is."
"[The rapist] ordered the other [Jehovah's Witness woman] into the bathroom but then changed his mind and, warning her not to scream or yell, he reached for the zipper on her blouse. She exclaimed: "No! No! Not that!" and told him that if he touched her she would scream as he had never heard anyone scream before and that if he was going to shoot he might as well go ahead and shoot because if she did not scream she would be as good as dead anyhow."
"She told him that marriage was honorable before God and that she was married, but that what he wanted to do was not honorable. Also, that if she did not scream she would ruin her relationship with Jehovah God and the Christian congregation; that then she would be disfellowshiped or excommunicated from it and that this would be worse than being killed as far as she was concerned."
Why the Increase [in Rape Crimes]?
"Womankind must share the blame."
"A new American motion picture star who aims to occupy the place once held by America's previous sex symbol brags about her charms and about her ability to arouse men by displaying herself in motion pictures. Such actresses must also share in the blame for the increase in rapes, for after men have seen them on the screen they frequently go out and attack a woman who may be a paragon of virtue."
"...each virtuous woman should be careful to dress modestly. According to the Seattle, Washington, police lieutenant in charge of the department dealing with such crimes, women who "reveal everything" in the way they dress make themselves more vulnerable to rape. "You can't advertise a commodity and expect no buyers . . . A little modesty," he holds, would prevent some rapes."
------------------------------------------------The Watchtower October 15th 1980 Issue, Page 7:
"Back in March 1974, Awake! magazine described how a man with a gun had held two of Jehovah's Witnesses prisoner in a hotel room. As he reached for the zipper on one girl's blouse, she exclaimed: "No! No! Not that!" She told him that if he touched her she would scream as he had never heard anyone scream before. She explained that if she did not she would ruin her relationship with Jehovah God and the Christian congregation. (Compare Deuteronomy 22:22-29.) Her firm demand: "Don't you touch me or come near me" kept the rapist at bay."
"This woman did the Scripturally proper thing, which actually is the best thing to do. A Christian woman is under obligation to resist, for the issue of obedience to God's law to "flee from fornication" is involved. (1 Cor. 6:18) By no means would it be proper for her willingly to submit to being raped."
------------------------------------------------Awake! February 22nd 1984 Issue, Pages 24-27:
"Should a Christian quietly submit [to rape]?"
"No, the situation is not the same as when a man simply is asking for money or other material possessions. A woman wisely would give him these. But the rapist is asking a person to break God's law by committing fornication. Under such circumstances a Christian is obligated to resist."
" 'But could not resistance be dangerous?' someone may ask. Yes, it could be."
"Two young women were in a Laundromat when a man came in and at gunpoint herded them into a room in the rear of the building. He ordered them to undress. They refused, praying aloud to Jehovah God for help. Finally, they told the now-confused gunman that they were Jehovah's Witnesses and that it was against their religious belief to do what he was demanding; they would not do it even if he shot them. Result? The frustrated gunman fled."
"Treat [the Rapist] Respectfully"
"The intended victim should remember that the rapist is a human. No doubt there are circumstances in his life that have precipitated his behavior. So although a woman should not cower in fear and permit a rapist to intimidate her, at the same time she should treat him understandingly, as a fellow human."
"Because the man had his hand inside his coat, as if he had a gun, I said, 'If you are going to kill me, do it.' He said he had a gun and would shoot me if I did not do everything he commanded. He told me to turn off all the lights and sit on the couch. I turned off the lights but refused to sit on the couch. He said he would kill me if I did not let him rape me. Then he started pushing me to the couch, so I quoted Matthew 16:26, which says: 'For what benefit will it be to a man if he gains the whole world but forfeits his soul? or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?' "
"The man stopped pushing me and asked what the scripture meant. So I explained that if I resisted him and remained faithful to my God and my husband, and was killed for this faithfulness, I would have a hope of being resurrected to a Paradise earth and everlasting life. But if I gave in and he raped me, I would eventually die and have no hope of a resurrection."
"The intruder knew he was not going to talk me into letting him rape me, so he started pulling at my clothing. I remembered the scripture at Deuteronomy chapter 22 that says if you are attacked in the city and do not scream it is considered the same as consenting. I then said very loudly, 'Stop! Please! No! Don't do that! Mister, please leave my house!' "
"If a woman is attacked, her best weapon is still her lungs"
-----------------------------------------------Awake! June 8th 1984 Issue, Page 28:
"the requirement of Deuteronomy 22:25-27 for the woman to resist by screaming would clear her from any suspicion of such consent on her part."
-----------------------------------------------Awake! May 22nd 1986 Issue, Page 23:
"Why you should resist an attacker from the first moment:"
"...Your conscience will be clear. (Even if you are raped, you will not sacrifice your self-respect or cleanness before God)... "
-----------------------------------------------Awake! August 22nd 1989 Issue, Page 24:
"If a woman does not cry out when attacked, it indicates she is submitting to the man and is committing a sin against Jehovah."
-----------------------------------------------The Watchtower December 15th 1998 Issue:
"There are, of course, limits to cooperation. Jehovah's servants do not cooperate in any way that violates God's law. For example, a Christian would not willingly submit to rape."
-----------------------------------------------Here is an August 2nd 2002 Comment by J.R. Brown (Watchtower Society's Main Spokesman) in an Interview with Reporter, Michael Morris (mikepence), over the Phone:
Question asked by Michael Morris (mikepence): "Is requiring a woman to scream during a rape a 'reasonable position to take'?"
Answer by J.R. Brown: "We feel that is a reasonable position to take. We've had a fairly consistent Policy. If this [screaming and resisting sexual assault] has been done, then we are not going to view that, obviously, as some immorality."
J.R. Brown and Michael Morris (mikepence) did not discuss whether Jehovah's Witnesses require a child to scream during a rape or not.
Michael Morris (mikepence) said this after the Interview: "Would I be compromising my objectivity to admit that I need to go puke in disgust?"
-----------------------------------------------The Watchtower February 1st 2003 Issue:
Questions From ReadersWhy does the Bible say that a person should scream if threatened with rape?
Anyone who has not personally experienced the horror of being brutally assaulted by a rapist can never truly understand how it can shatter one's life. The experience is so terrifying for the victim that it may trouble her for the rest of her life* [FOOTNOTE SAYS: Although this article speaks about female victims, the principles discussed also apply to males who are threatened with rape.]. A young Christian woman who was attacked by a rapist some years ago relates: "Words cannot express the sheer terror I felt that night or the trauma I've had to overcome since," Understandably, many prefer not even to think about this frightening subject. Yet, the threat of rape is a reality, in this wicked world.
The Bible does not shy from recounting some cases of rape and attempted rape that occurred In the past. (Genesis 19:4-11; 34:7-7; 2 Samuel 13:1-14) But it also offers counsel on what one should do when threatened with rape. What the Law says on the matter is found at Deuteronomy 22:23-27. This covers two situations. In the first case, a man found a young woman in a city and lay down with her. Even so, the woman did not scream or cry for help. Consequently, it was determined that she was guilty "for the reason that she did not scream in the city." If she had cried out, people nearby might have been able to come to her rescue. In the second Instance, a man found a young woman in the countryside, where he "grabbed hold of her and lay dawn with her." In defense, the woman "screamed, but there was no one to rescue her." Unlike the woman in the first instance, this woman clearly did not give in to the actions of the attacker. She actively resisted him, crying for help, but she was overpowered. Her screaming proved that she was an unwilling victim; she was not guilty of wrongdoing.
Although Christians today are not under the Mosaic Law, the principles mentioned therein provide them with guidance. The above account underscores the importance of resisting and screaming for help. Screaming when threatened with rape is still viewed as a practical course. One expert on crime prevention stated: "If a woman is attacked, her best weapon is still her Lungs." A woman's screaming may attract others, who can then assist her, or it may startle an attacker and make him leave. A young Christian woman who was attacked by a rapist stated: "I screamed with all my might, and he backed off. When he came toward me again, I screamed and ran. In the past I had often thought, 'How can screaming help me when some big man grabs me with only one thing on his mind?' But I've learned that it works!"
Even in the sad case where a woman is over powered and raped, her struggle and screaming for help is not in vain. On the contrary, it establishes that she did all she possibly could to resist her attacker. (Deuteronomy 22:26) Despite going through this ordeal, she can still have an undefiled conscience, self-respect, and the assurance that she is clean in God's eyes. The horrifying experience might leave her with emotional wounds, but knowing that she did all she could to resist the attack will greatly contribute to her gradual healing.
In understanding the application of Deuteronomy 22:23-27, we must realize that this brief account does not cover all possible situations. For example, it does not comment on the situation where the attacked woman cannot scream because she is mute, unconscious, or paralyzed with fear or is forcibly prevented from screaming by a hand or tape over her mouth. However, since Jehovah is able to weigh all factors, including motives, he deals with understanding and justice in such cases, for "all his ways are justice." (Deuteronomy 32:4) He is aware of what actually took place and of the efforts the victim put forth to fight off her attacker. Therefore, a victim who was unable to scream but otherwise did all she could under the circumstances can leave matters in Jehovah's hands. -Psalm 55;22; 1 Peter 5:7.
Even so, some Christian women who have been attacked and violated are incessantly pained by feelings of guilt. In hindsight, they feel that they should have done more to prevent the incident from happening. However, instead of blaming themselves, such victims can pray to Jehovah, ask for his help, and have confidence in his abundant loving-kindness.-Exodus 34:6; Psalm 86:5.
Hence, Christian women who are presently coping with emotional wounds resulting from an encounter with a rapist can be confident that Jehovah fully understands the painful feelings they are dealing with. God's Word assures them: "Jehovah is near to those that are broken at heart; and those who are crushed in spirit he saves." (Psalm 34:18) Further help to cope with their trauma can come from accepting the sincere understanding and gentle support of fellow believers in the Christian congregation. (Job 29:12; 1 Thessalonians 5:14) Moreover, the victims' own efforts to concentrate on positive thoughts will help them to experience "the peace of God that excels all thought"-Philippians 4:6-9.
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minimus
undisfellowshipped, thank you for the EXCELLENT research!!!
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Scully
Hi minimus:
From an organizational point of view, the elders will probably stick their noses into the matter even if it is not necessary. After all, we're talking about people who think of rape as a sexual act, rather than a violent crime. To them, a rape victim is potentially a candidate for disfellowshipping, because she had a penis come in contact with her vagina, and she was not married to the person who did it to her. They want to determine why she was where she was, why she was with whom she was with, what she was wearing (thong or panties), whether she was behaving in a provocative way.
You have to remember the WTS's view of the female population. Remember the "Women are Like Cows" article that AlanF posted, about how women's hormones overtake them at certain times of the month and make them crave sex?? They've never printed an apology or a retraction of that "Bull$h!t" (pardon the pun), and there are still old-timers among JWs who really believe that stuff. Or what about the "Your Youth - Getting the Best Out of It" chapter on "Growing into Womanhood" that basically repeats the same garbage??
Don't forget that the vast majority of rapes are between people who know each other, not strangers. What if - and this is a distinct possibility - the sister says she's been raped by a brother?? Who do you suppose they are going to protect? Are they going to believe a "sister" who is maybe accusing one of their elder or ministerial servant buddies?? You bet they're going to have a JC on that one. And I can guarantee you that they'll be looking to DF the sister to keep her quiet. Do you really think they'll want her going to the police if it means that "reproach" will come on the organization??
Love, Scully
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UnDisfellowshipped
Here's what that Question From Readers really meant:
Even though Christians are no longer under Mosaic law, Jehovah's Witnesses ARE!
JW women are required to scream and/or fight off a rapist, but yet, they must remember to treat him with respect because he is a fellow human! But, if the woman doesn't fight to the death against the rapist she will be interrogated by the Elders and then Disfellowshipped and Shunned by all JW family and friends for committing FORNICATION or ADULTERY!
But then, if the rapist was a JW, he would get off scott free because there were not TWO WITNESSES!
I'm surprised the Watchtower doesn't make JW women walk 10 steps behind their husbands.
CC Ryder said:
In the second instance it said that there was no one to come to her aid although she screamed. That implies to me that no one heard her scream. So how is this supposed to justify their rule about screaming out being the determining factor as to the victim doing all they could within their power to resist?
No Apologies said:
Another thing, if a woman was out in a field and was raped even though she screamed, the accused rapist would be executed. Where are the two witnesses in this scenario??? How could a man be put to death in this kind of case?
Very, very good point.
Here is the Quote:
In the second Instance, a man found a young woman in the countryside, where he "grabbed hold of her and lay dawn with her." In defense, the woman "screamed, but there was no one to rescue her." Unlike the woman in the first instance, this woman clearly did not give in to the actions of the attacker. She actively resisted him, crying for help, but she was overpowered. Her screaming proved that she was an unwilling victim; she was not guilty of wrongdoing.
Here is the Scripture that the Watchtower was referring to:
Deuteronomy 22:25: "But if in the field the man finds the girl who is engaged, and the man rapes her, then only the man who rapes her shall die.
Deuteronomy 22:26: "But you shall do nothing to the girl; there is no sin in the girl worthy of death, for just as a man rises against his neighbor and murders him, so is this case.
Deuteronomy 22:27: "When he found her in the field, the engaged girl cried out, but there was no one to save her.The Watchtower Society uses that Scripture in SUPPORT of their "Scream or be Disfellowshipped" Policy.
HOWEVER, they completely absolutely IGNORE that Scripture when they enforce their TWO-WITNESS POLICY!
That Scripture DESTROYS the Watchtower's TWO-WITNESS Policy for Child Rape!
Notice, the Scripture says that if a woman was out in the field and was raped, and there was NO ONE ELSE AROUND, that the man was to be put to death at the word of ONE WITNESS -- THE VICTIM!
Edited by - UnDisfellowshipped on 29 December 2002 0:5:39
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minimus
The 2 witness rule is only selectively applied by the organization. When you read the Bible, you see that there are plenty of times 2 witnesses were not available to establish a fact. Really, we should not be in the business of judging. God is the only judge that I care about. The scriptures constantly say that we should not judge our brother or sister. But, this religion is based entirely upon superficial looks and judgments.What the Society is really saying is "We will tell you what to think and believe". And if you miss their point, they will be sure to swiftly correct you!