God's Purpose Soon to Be Realized: WT idiocy

by Focus 45 Replies latest jw friends

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  IslandWoman

  Hi JT,

  while i agree completely that there is no ploy the point is when you change dogma so much and so often your members can't keep up with what is current new light

  If Focus had only posted that the Watchtower stupidly has on its site an old publication that still has the old 1914 generation teaching, I would have agreed. What I disagreed with is the attempt to say that this whole thing is somehow a Watchtower plot.

  Stupid yes, plot no.

  As for their changing dogma all the time of course I agree that they do. If I, though, were still in the Org. and found this brochure there I probably would not have read it because I have my own copy, but if I had read it I would have recognized that the 1914 generation teaching in the brochure is "old light" in in an old brochure. It would not have caused me to think the Watchtower had now made another change in the teaching and was announcing this change by reprinting an old brochure! In fact, as a Witness I might be carrying that very brochure in my field service bag to place with someone who seemed distressed.

  The reprinting of the text unchanged without, as you said, a disclaimer is certainly sloppy and unprofessional work for a so called FDS but not imo more than that, which I feel Focus was implying.

  Thanks for your comments on this.

  IW

  Edited by - IslandWoman on 27 December 2002 11:49:4
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  JH

  IW

  Stupid yes, plot no.

  Stupid Yes, plot Yes

  The Watchtower has different versions for whoever wants it. For the old who lived with generation=70-80 years, they kept a bit of that to satisfy this category of people.

  For the new people and generation of witnesses, they came out with a new ploy to keep them active and waiting for another 100 years.
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  AlanF

  I tend to agree with Focus and JH on this, i.e., that the older teaching was not excised from the website presentation because it serves the WTS's purpose of generating expectation in the newer generation of JWs or prospective JWs, and does not raise alarm bells in the older generation. In other words, they have a new teaching that contradicts an old teaching, but they spew enough confusion over the issue that no one of the rank & file knows what the precise, actual teaching is, and so they conclude that they're too dumb to understand it and give up.

  This technique of retaining dumb believers can be seen in the way the WTS today handles the old teaching that the creative days of Genesis were 7,000 years long. Today the publications speak of the creative days as being "millennia" or "thousands of years" long. This allows for the fact that life has been on the earth for several billion years, and so it satisfies what most young JWs know as fact from school, but it also allows older JWs to continue with the old beliefs and not get upset that yet another rug has been pulled out from under them. Today, JWs don't know what to believe, because if you question them and they do some research to find an answer, they find that Mommy has given several answers, and therefore no answer, and so they don't know what to tell you. If they then try to reply to you at all, they'll do everything they can to derail the discussion to avoid giving a precise answer.

  I think that an important consideration in the present JW belief in the imminence of Armageddon is that Ted Jaracz, the head-in-fact of the JW Governing Body, believes that Armageddon is imminent. His belief is so strong that he has caused the WTS to bungle virtually everything it has touched with respect to the child abuse issue, in that he seems to think that the coming of Armageddon will save them from their idiocy. When you believe that "Armageddon is right around the corner", you do all sorts of things you wouldn't if you had a long term view. Thus, confusing prospective JWs with "old light" that happens to contradict "new light" in a way that influences them to join the fold -- even for wrong reasons -- is a GOOD THING.

  AlanF
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  Analysis

  AlanF said:

  "I think that an important consideration in the present JW belief in the imminence of Armageddon is that Ted Jaracz, the head-in-fact of the JW Governing Body, believes that Armageddon is imminent."

  Some on the Board seem to know a great deal about Ted Jaracz and what AlanF states make sense. But, do any have proof that Ted and the rest of the Governing Body really believe the stuff that the Writing Department puts out? In my view at least some of them have got to realize after all this time that Russell, Rutherford and Franz was just making this stuff up to sell magazines.
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  Jourles

  I pity the fools who tear down their pro-jw websites because momma says that her site is the only true one on the web. Here you have publisher grunts providing up to date info on their personal sites, but then momma still broadcasts old light for the rest of the world to read.

  Sandler: "Momma says but momma says but but...."
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  IslandWoman

  Hi Alan,

  I find myself in this peculiar place of seemingly defending the Watchtower, but what I am really trying to do is speak for "common sense." imho that is.

  You wrote:

  I tend to agree with Focus and JH on this, i.e., that the older teaching was not excised from the website presentation because it serves the WTS's purpose of generating expectation in the newer generation of JWs or prospective JWs, and does not raise alarm bells in the older generation. In other words, they have a new teaching that contradicts an old teaching, but they spew enough confusion over the issue that no one of the rank & file knows what the precise, actual teaching is, and so they conclude that they're too dumb to understand it and give up.

  Let us say you are correct in your assumption here. So a newbie JW or prospective JW reads that brochure on the JW site (which incidentally is not prominently displayed on the opening page of the site), then after reading all the way to almost the end of section 7 (of an 8 section brochure) they find that the end of the 1914 generation is nigh which means the end of the world as they know it is soon to come and will result in paradise on earth.

  So what next? What is the Watchtower expecting them to do with this information? Run to the KH, get baptized, and start warning people at the door about the coming end of the 1914 generation? Or will they keep this tidbit to themselves and never ask anyone about it?

  This imo is not the same as changing the language or terminology used for the length of the creative days. If this were a new publication that tried to use confusing language when speaking about the 1914 generation change I would agree with the comparison but this is just an old brochure not some new twist they are trying to pull on people.

  I just don't think there is enough evidence in this instance to call this some attempt at a slight of hand or a sinister plot on the part of the Watchtower.

  IW
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  found

  JT,

  They don't teach the separating of the sheep and goats anymore? Guess I missed that one!
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  Siddhashunyata

  The style of the WTBTS has become public knowledge thanks to the internet and sites like this one. It would be a mistake to take a soft approach to their trickery and deceit. At best, they make mistakes, as JT pointed out. But , at worst they deceive by design. Deceit is inexcuseable in Religion no matter how successful. They have been found out and, Island , one does not have to be a genius to make a simple notation that keeps current the interpretations of vital life saving prophecy. One can get the impression that, at the WTBTS no one is minding the store but that is naive. Try to point out the impact of such publishing "mistakes" to the WTBTS and you will see that. The task at hand is to become fully armed and show no mercy for "intentional" or unintentional mistakes. That is how the WTBTS treats others and that is how they will be treated. May they keep looking over their shoulder as they reap vengence for the paranoia they have sown among us.
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  AlanF

  Analysis said:

  : do any have proof that Ted and the rest of the Governing Body really believe the stuff that the Writing Department puts out?

  What would constitute proof for you? About a year and a half ago I spoke to Jaracz on the phone and he told me that he believed what mentioned in my post. That's proof enough for me.

  Sure, there are plenty of Bethelites who reserve judgment, or even see the nonsense for what it is. But for very human, and often "selfish" reasons, they stick with the organization they're familiar with, watching and biding their time until they die, or something better comes along. The sad thing is that some who have real power in Bethel believe very little of the nonsense, but go along with it anyway.

  IslandWoman, I know you're no Watchtower apologist, but sometimes I think you don't see things clearly. This is one of those times. Sure, I agree that there is no major, nefarious plot hatched by the GB to deceive people in the case Focus is talking about here. But that's almost certainly because none of them concern themselves about the WTS website. However, they -- and especially Jaracz -- have made it clear that preaching and believing in the imminence of Armageddon is necessary to stay in the good graces of the powers-that-be at Bethel. Therefore, whenever an opportunity presents itself to push this belief, they're going to do it. In this case, as several have commented, it suits the 'belief in imminence' to republish an older article (the source is irrelevant, since it is published as if it were current belief; otherwise it would not be on the website). Anything that the Society publishes right now is considered "present truth" and is to be believed as if it came from God. Thus, if they now publish outdated "light" as "present truth" when it contradicts the "new light" that explicitly outmoded the "old light", then they are teaching contradictory things. Either they are doing this by design, or by stupidity. While WTS writers can be awesomely stupid, the "generation change" was such a big deal internally that I cannot believe that any of the writing staff could have missed this contradiction. Thus I can only conclude that they left it in deliberately. Nevertheless, leaving it in is stupid in itself, since it gives critics yet another stick with which to beat some sense into their heads.

  AlanF
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  IslandWoman

  Hello AlanF

  IslandWoman, I know you're no Watchtower apologist,

  Thank you, but there is really no way for you to know for sure is there? (Sorry, just thought I'd throw that in to fuel Focus' paranoia. )

  but sometimes I think you don't see things clearly.

  I object! Simon does this count as a personal attack?!

  Sure, I agree that there is no major, nefarious plot hatched by the GB to deceive people in the case Focus is talking about here.

  My one and only point in this thread! Thank you!

  But that's almost certainly because none of them concern themselves about the WTS website.

  True.

  However, they -- and especially Jaracz -- have made it clear that preaching and believing in the imminence of Armageddon is necessary to stay in the good graces of the powers-that-be at Bethel.

  I will have to trust you on that one, I have no personal knowledge of that.

  Therefore, whenever an opportunity presents itself to push this belief, they're going to do it. In this case, as several have commented, it suits the 'belief in imminence' to republish an older article (the source is irrelevant, since it is published as if it were current belief; otherwise it would not be on the website).

  If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that while the GB does not concern itself with the JW website the fact that Jaracz etc. require the brothers at Bethel to publish "belief in imminence" is the reason they have included this brochure in their website?

  Anything that the Society publishes right now is considered "present truth" and is to be believed as if it came from God. Thus, if they now publish outdated "light" as "present truth" when it contradicts the "new light" that explicitly outmoded the "old light", then they are teaching contradictory things.

  Well, being a "little slow" I guess so Alan. All I know is that as "publishers" we gave out old truth all the time, it was called cleaning out the old literature. The Society has never been troubled about teaching the old. lol

  Either they are doing this by design, or by stupidity.

  OK.

  While WTS writers can be awesomely stupid, the "generation change" was such a big deal internally that I cannot believe that any of the writing staff could have missed this contradiction. Thus I can only conclude that they left it in deliberately.

  Apparently to make the GB happy?

  Nevertheless, leaving it in is stupid in itself, since it gives critics yet another stick with which to beat some sense into their heads.

  Anything I say about the above statement would be misunderstood so, no comment.

  Alan,

  Do you think the GB and the others at Bethel are being accurately portrayed on this site? In other words, can people who visit here feel that what is said about the GB and all the brothers who run the Watchtower is truthful and without bias?

  I think there are times when the very thing we hate we become. That at times "getting the Watchtower" is more important than giving a balanced view, in effect imitating the Watchtower's view of world religion and other zenophobic teachings of theirs. I feel uncomfortable with that.

  This is the reason why so many times I come out in favor of showing the other side of the picture. But as I have said before, I fully recognize that men know men, men know how to deal with men, men know how other men think. So, while I will continue to express a differing opinion when I have one, I do recognize that you may know how to deal with the Watchtower men better than I do.

  Thanks,

  IW

  Edited by - IslandWoman on 27 December 2002 22:3:8