God's Purpose Soon to Be Realized: WT idiocy

by Focus 45 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Pork Chop

  Island Woman you're dealing with true believers here, even Alan F who I though better of, so you might as well be talking to a barn door.
• 

  IslandWoman

  Thanks Pork Chop!

  IW
• 

  donkey

  Do you think the GB and the others at Bethel are being accurately portrayed on this site? In other words, can people who visit here feel that what is said about the GB and all the brothers who run the Watchtower is truthful and without bias?

  I think there are times when the very thing we hate we become. That at times "getting the Watchtower" is more important than giving a balanced view, in effect imitating the Watchtower's view of world religion and other zenophobic teachings of theirs. I feel uncomfortable with that.

  IW,

  I happen to agree with you on this point. There are some who make accusations - even if they are true - without offering proof. Proof gives arguments credibility. For instance take the unsubstantiated claim that Ted molested someone. Even if that claim is true it should be viewed with great skepticism UNTIL proof is provided. Once proof is provided I will damn Ted like everyone else, until then he is innocent of the alleged claim until proven guilty.

  Unlike the WT Kangaroo courts if we are honest with ourselves we have the right to ask to evidence and proof of any claims both for and against the WT.

  That being said I happen to agree with Focus on this particular thread. Why have links up to old out-dated stuff if people's lives depend oin the timeliness of the information ("food at the proper time" -huh). Why did they edit the information and/or remove pictures when they re-organized the site? If they were re-organizing it why not take down the page?

  I don't believe their is a sinister motive - I just think they are stupid.

  What does it feel like to have a Donkey think you are stupid, WT?
• 

  AlanF

  Hi IW,

  : If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that while the GB does not concern itself with the JW website the fact that Jaracz etc. require the brothers at Bethel to publish "belief in imminence" is the reason they have included this brochure in their website?

  Right.

  : Do you think the GB and the others at Bethel are being accurately portrayed on this site? In other words, can people who visit here feel that what is said about the GB and all the brothers who run the Watchtower is truthful and without bias?

  If you think about this question a bit, you'll see the answers for yourself: Yes, no and maybe.

  : I think there are times when the very thing we hate we become.

  True. But in this case, I know of very few on any online forum who have begun to claim to speak for God, and who then condemn everyone who doesn't go along with this claim. People have every right to express opinions, especially in a forum designed for it. Others have every right to express opinions about others' opinions. Watchtower-like lunatics want no one to have those rights.

  : That at times "getting the Watchtower" is more important than giving a balanced view, in effect imitating the Watchtower's view of world religion and other zenophobic teachings of theirs. I feel uncomfortable with that.

  I'm glad you do, and I agree with you to a large extent. However, a balanced view of plenty of stuff has been given ad nauseum in any number of forums. How much good has it done? Some, sure. But not nearly as much good as generating controversy that results in publicity. Also keep in mind that a lot of people are like the proverbial donkey that you have to hit with a two by four to get its attention. Sometimes they have to see something spectacular, or something that really pisses them off, in order to get them to move enough to actually think about something. With such people, hyperbole has its place.

  There is an abundance of great material on WTS lunacy that is entirely balanced, fair, factual and objective. Unfortunately, 98% of the people that see it pass a great YAWN.

  : This is the reason why so many times I come out in favor of showing the other side of the picture.

  I understand, but you ought to temper that with some acknowledgement that the other side has a point. Otherwise you can end up sounding awfully like someone who defends, say, child molestation 'just to show the other side of the picture'. Do you understand what I'm trying to tell you?

  Also remember who you're dealing with on this forum. Most of the participants have 'been there, done that'. They already know "the other side" and so you're just preaching to a choir unwilling to hear what sounds like a defense of what they have already had a full stomach of. If they hadn't gotten sick on WTS lunacy, they wouldn't be here at all.

  : But as I have said before, I fully recognize that men know men, men know how to deal with men, men know how other men think. So, while I will continue to express a differing opinion when I have one, I do recognize that you may know how to deal with the Watchtower men better than I do.

  I don't know that gender has much to do with it, since some of my best insights into WTS lunacy have come from women. I've simply come to understand what sort of unethical, amoral scumbags are in charge in Brooklyn, and how they operate. I've been dealing with online WTS apologists for more than a decade. It used to surprise me when yet another nasty insect crawled out from under the Bethel rock, but no more. There have been far too many to remember.

  As for you, Porker, I would not even try to answer your scintillatingly brilliant arguments. Your comprehension of the issues is so far beyond anything in my experience that I'm overwhelmed.

  AlanF
• 

  donkey

  Also keep in mind that a lot of people are like the proverbial donkey that you have to hit with a two by four to get its attention

  Alan,

  Was that you who hit me? Next time I am going to bite your carrot in two.
• 

  Focus

  IslandWoman scribbled:
  

  The Watchtower always uses its older literature surely you must know this. The congregations are regularly instucted to purge themselves of the old literature by placing it in the field.

  I will briefly deal with the appropriateness of your analogy between using up paper copies of old literature and continuing to place, without disclaimer and with a highly-misleading date, old material on the website, later on in this refutation.

  First, some history lessons for other readers.

  (1) Sure, the WTBTS hates losing profit. Selling books or using pamphlets, even if they contain "Old Light" for which the R&F could be DF'd for promulgation, until stocks run out is a Watchtower speciality. For example, in "God's Kingdom of a Thousand Years Has Approached" (1969), the Watchtower, distancing itself from its sixty years of hinting or claiming that Charles Russell was the FDS, claimed on pages 347/356:
  "Creature worship .. This view was prominently featured in the book published in July of 1917 by the People's Pulpit Association of Brooklyn, New York. This book was called 'The Finished Mystery' and furnished a commentary of the Bible books of Revelation and Ezekiel and The Songs of Solomon. On its Publishers page the book was called the 'Posthumous Works of Pastor Russell.' Such a book and religious attitude tended to establish a religious sect centered around a man .. in the year 1927 any remaining stocks of the six volumes of Studies in the Scriptures by Russell and of 'The Finished Mystery' were disposed of among the public. It was the published and accepted thought down till 1927 that he was 'that servant' of Matthew 24:45"
  But this claim is fraudulent. The Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence of March 15, 1928 - after 1927 - on page 126 specifically instructed brothers to distribute these books to the public (though they had been already classified as "old light".
  And The Watch Tower and Herald of Christ's Presence of November 1, 1929 - after 1927 - on page 322 stated:
  ""The Society has decided to designate the week beginning November 10 as a special drive week for the sale of Studies in the Scriptures"
  And in the December 1, 1932 - after 1927 - copy of the Bulletin appeared:
  "1,646,316 bound books .. placed in the hands of the public .. during 1931 over 100,000 Studies in the Scriptures were included in the total"
  And in the Watchtower Cost List, Volumes III, IV and VI of "Studies in the Scriptures" continued to be listed into the 1960s - after 1927.
  Indeed, SiS Volume IV ("Battle of Armageddon"; till 1910, "The Day of Vengeance") showed up in "Kingdom Ministry" (as it was then called) until 1966 - after 1927 - after which it appeared as "out of stock"
  So for many decades after reversing/dropping its teachings (SiS IV contains hundreds of teachings abandoned by the WTS prior to the 1960s), the Watchtower continued to distribute "Old Light" and get more money in. One thing having books available in the libraries - another distributing them to publishers and public alike, all without attached disclaimers! What utter recklessness on the part of the self-claimed "discreet" slave!
  Or simply yet more evidence that "THEY" KNEW it was all BALONEY at the time they were spewing it forth.
  Either way, they are not at all what they claim to be. Mutton-headed Morons or Thieves, Cheats and Liars.
  Also the "People's Pulpit Association" mentioned (probably in order to suggest the work was not quite exactly a work of the WTBTS) is none other than the WTBTS itself - as admitted somewhere else "Such a corporation came into legal existence February 23, 1909, and was named People's Pulpit Association. Thirty years later, in 1939, the name was changed to its present one, Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, Inc." ("Qualified to be Ministers" (1967), page 309).
  So getting the dollars in counts, not getting the (present) truth out!

  (2) Sure, the WTBTS hates having to bother changing text. For example:
  "The Scriptural proof is that the period of his presence and the day of God's preparation is a period from 1874 A.D. forward. The second coming of the Lord, therefore, began in 1874; and that date and the years 1914 and 1918 are specially marked dates with reference to his coming." This material is found on page 289 in the 1927 edition and page 310 of the 1939 edition of the book "Creation". But the dogma that the second coming/presence was in 1874 (held for 55 years by the Society) was abandoned immediately after the 1929 edition of "Prophecy" (page 65-6 contains its last restatement in a new work) - for example, Light I (1930) and Vindication I (1931) had commenced the weasel-wording to pretend the WTBTS had really been talking about 1914 (rather than 1874). So why, a whole decade after the old teaching became in nature "apostatical", reprint a book without excising the "Old Light" inside it?

  So, IslandWoman, as you are well aware, the Watchtower has a long history of such absurdity and/or greed. Thanks for providing me an opportunity to remind others of this.

  The fact that they did not change some "old light" in the brochure does not indicate some sinister plot to fool people.. Imo, you exaggerated this thing to the point where it was misleading to many here.. Focus importunes in his post that this "article" may be something more than what it really is. In reality it is just a reprint of an old brochure. He insinuates that this "article" may signal a going back and forth in the understanding of the "generation" teaching. I dislike disinformation.. If Focus had only posted that the Watchtower stupidly has on its site an old publication that still has the old 1914 generation teaching, I would have agreed. What I disagreed with is the attempt to say that this whole thing is somehow a Watchtower plot.. sloppy and unprofessional work .. but not imo more than that, which I feel Focus was implying.. I just don't think there is enough evidence in this instance to call this some attempt at a slight of hand or a sinister plot on the part of the Watchtower.

  But WHERE PRECISELY did I state or imply it was a "sinister plot" or "slight of hand" (sic - you mean "sleight"), you PRIZE DOOFUS IslandWoman? Can't you read? Or did something change before your eyes, you villain?

  The title of the thread is: "God's Purpose Soon to Be Realized: WT idiocy", right? Not WT "weaseling", right? Doh! Or has the flickering light of your Spiritual Mommy made you so dizzy you see Focus doing the same?

  In the very first post of the thread, I wrote: "So then why, six years later, was the Watchtower still teaching 'some people who were alive in 1914 will still be alive when this system comes to its end.' - http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/soon_realized.htm ? What confusion!". What part of the word "confusion" do you not understand? Doh!! Does "confusion" mean "plot" on your island, woman?

  Check on the meaning of "reprint" while you are about it. The article and brochure is a NEW, REARRANGED 2001 EDITION, as the (c) notice says. No "1993" attribution thereon. And again the strict 1914 dogma.

  YOU HAVE FALSELY ACCUSED YOUR BROTHER, AND SMEARED HIM AND HIS ASS, YOU SHAMEFUL LITTLE TROLL! WHERE IS YOUR APOLOGY?

  If I wish to insinuate and imply things, I'd do it in a manner that even put those wicked monsters in the Writing Department to shame. But it lies beneath my dignity to so do, ten minute flashbacks excepted.

  I don't care whose name is attached to a post,

  
  (continuing) but if it is from IslandWoman, it probably contains all variety of nonsense, WT-apologia, idiocy, false attribution, misquoting, misrepresentation, sundry stupidity, illustrations of the author's poor reading comprehension and so on.

  The Watchtower taught us well!!

  Yes, and you continue to do its bidding. Do not think encomiums from AlanF, whom I view as at times bordering on WTS-apologia himself, cuts the mustard with me, IW.

  I find myself in this peculiar place of seemingly defending the Watchtower

  You should be quite at home in that place, then, for I catch you there all the time, IW.

  but what I am really trying to do is speak for "common sense."

  Acquire it first, methinks.

  AlanF wrote:
  

  Sure, I agree that there is no major, nefarious plot hatched by the GB to deceive people in the case Focus is talking about here.

  Yep.

  For the record, I never said there was neither. I don't make accusations I can't prove, at least on the balance of probabilities.

  For any with poor reading comprehension, and before IW attempts to make some defense for her misconduct based thereon, my words in the first post in the thread "And check: http://www.watchtower.org/library/pr/soon_realized.htm for yourself, before there is yet another deceitful change." do not imply that any changes so far that are specifically there (or thereabouts) were deceitful. But there is a proven record of the WTS deceitfully changing things ELSEWHERE and not admitting it has done so (remember the completion of the work in the twentieth century that did not seem to make it into the bound volume?). So it is prudent to check something that too is bound to be changed, before it is transformed or deleted. Sure, I want to highlight this web material so, when the WTS change it (as they must, as I have said earlier in the thread), we can all see whether they openly admit they have made a(nother) mistake - or just slip the change in quietly, which would then constitute "yet another deceitful change". Understood?

  Any bets as to which happens?

  As I said, check the URL and keep checking, before there is yet another deceitful change by the Watchtower.

  //snip AF's correct reasoning// Thus I can only conclude that they left it in deliberately.

  As I concluded too, on the balance of likelihood.
  So back now to the dribblings of the Daughter-Harlot Class.

  Re WT-apologist status of IslandWoman

  there is really no way for you to know for sure is there? (Sorry, just thought I'd throw that in to fuel Focus' paranoia.)

  When you misleadingly present arguments or material in support of the WTS dozens of times, there is no paranoia in branding you for what you are, IW. You are an apologist for the Great Whore. If you do not realize it, that is your further folly.

  You IslandWoman attempt to derail (rather than refocus) many a thread that tears the WTS apart for its stupidity and/or deceit and/or hypocrisy, by bringing in strawmen and contrived asides. I predicted I would find you infesting "my" one. And here you are, trying to make out I was stating or implying there was a "sinister plot" etc., when I have not. Of course, better to attack the strawman...

  I object! Simon does this count as a personal attack?!

  I guess this post does too, then, you Monstrous Misrepresenter of my words!
  Is it deceit or merely stupidity, IW, or something else altogether? If your agenda is improving my focus, which help would be commendable and gratefully and most humbly accepted, the responses you have had do not indicate that any consider that you have the competence or wherewithal to so do. If your agenda is defending the WTS against just attack, why would you create a strawman?

  Perhaps you know that the colorful but correct attacks that I launch on the Old Whore are effective, and hence focus your attention on to derailing them. This will inspire me to provide more of the same.

  //no sinister plot// My one and only point in this thread! Thank you!

  If that was your "one and only point", and since I never stated or implied it was a sinister plot, what are you doing here at all? Please turn to Deut. 28:20 and oblige. The donkey has already correctly reproved ye, IW of the Eph. 5:11 Class - as at 2 Pet. 2:16 you were "rebuked for [your] iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet."

  it was called cleaning out the old literature.

  A website may be changed "for free" - no wastage of paper involved in "discarding" old stuff. Your quasi-apologetic analogy, IW, is ludicrous! Sure, if the result of a mindset, it but illustrates the SHEER IDIOCY of the said mindset.

  Do you think the GB and the others at Bethel are being accurately portrayed on this site?

  If they are been protrayed as the Gibbering Baboon Class, then yes. If some of their number - and most of their entourage - are portrayed as a filthy collection of SPIRITUAL PIMPS, then yes. Next question?

  I fully realize men know men

  But "it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret"?

  I do recognize that ..AF.. may know how to deal with the Watchtower men better than I do.

  When dealing with the SWINE Class (see "The Finished Mystery" for the definition), the LASH works best. LEGAL ACTION, and WIDESPREAD PUBLICITY EXPOSING THE FILTHY MISDEEDS PERPETRATED BY THEM AND THEIR "SPIRITUAL" AND LEGAL PREDECESSORS.

  No Woman Is An Island, So: WHACK! for misrepresenting my "clear as crystal" words! We should afford you the "benefit of the doubt" just as much as we afford the Watchtower the same. Wake up, IW, and take due note of the lovingly-proffered olive branch in this my post.

  --
  Focus
  (Eph. 4:27 and the Writing Staff Class)

  Edited by - Focus on 28 December 2002 5:20:48
• 

  donkey

  Ahh Focus,

  Why are up so late my friend? Your Christian Conscience bothering you?

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.aspx?id=42895&page=2&site=3

  Just call me Jack!!!
• 

  Focus

  This thread is NOT about the merits and demerits of atheism or Christianity, thanks all the same (for the irrelevant URL too). One thing at a time. IW has already established and buttressed her position as the ass in this thread, Jack, so you must find gainful employment elsewhere if you wish to play that role. After all, we know what two asses make... right?

  --
  Focus
  (Balaam-the-Agnostic Class)

  Edited by - Focus on 28 December 2002 5:50:26
• 

  IslandWoman

  Hi Alan,

  Thanks for your response. I read it over carefully and while I continue to see things a little differently I appreciate your trying to explain your views.

  My comment about gender was not about having insight by the way, but referred to the fact that men think differently than women and they therefore probably have a better feel for how their counterparts in the Watchtower are thinking.

  Personally, I would take the high road with the Watchtower and when appropriate attack from within. Women do not always have the luxury of an overt attack, we are though quite good at using Trojan Horses.

  I know, not making much sense here but what the hell, the IW name is not here to always make sense. Looking forward to the demise of the Watchtower as we have all known it. Looking forward to a lot of things.

  Take care,

  IW
• 

  Farkel

  Greetings IW,

  : Personally, I would take the high road with the Watchtower and when appropriate attack from within.

  There is no "high road" when one is swimming in a sewer and dealing with sewer scrum! AlanF has deftly pointed out, that there is no "nice" way to deal with these people and the crap they promote.

  That being said, you of course, are free to do it "your way." That's what freedom from religious tyranny is all about!

  Farkel