UK Gun Laws: Possession = 5 Years Imprisonment.

by Englishman 72 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Simon

  "Guns don't kill people, people kill people"

  Yeah ... but with a gun it's much easier.

  The right to bear arms made sense when the USA was a fledgling colonial power but it is one of the things that make America unsafe to live.

  Yes, gun crime is up in the UK ... but in percentage terms. It is still nowhere near the USA where gunsa are so prevalent.

  Are most of the guns used in crime in the USA stolen? Well ... gee, who did they sttel them from?! What if they hadn't bought them?

  I think the best mix is: police can carry guns, other people can't.

  I don't know where to start with all the flawed logic and twisted reasoning in the like of this:

  Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.
• 

  Bendrr

  Englishman we're from two different cultures and we'll never see eye-to-eye on the issue of private citizens owning firearms. I respect how you feel and hope you respect how the gun owners on this board feel as well.

  I would like to make a point in response to your post. It's something that has been said many times by the "pro-gun" side in this country. Do you need more laws or do you need more enforcement of existing laws? Crack cocaine is illegal to make, sell, buy, or possess. Yet I can walk two blocks down the street from my apartment and buy crack, pot, heroin, any drug which is banned. Now does the fact that I still have access to these drugs mean that more laws should be passed against them or does it mean that the local law enforcement needs to more strongly enforce the existing laws?

  For the rest of you anti-gun crowd who don't live in the U.S.....

  I am a gun owner. I own a 12-gage shotgun and a .45 handgun. The shotgun is for home defense and stays next to my bed. I carry the .45 daily and have carried a handgun for 10 years now. I have a license to carry concealed and I am careful to follow all necessary laws. I have drawn my weapon three times and I firmly believe that in the cases in which I have drawn, things would have been much different had I not been armed. Or had I lived in a location with a gun ban. If you are so adamant about "disarming" U.S. citizens then come over here and take all the criminals' guns away first and then I'll gladly give you mine.

  Until then....if we happen to meet over here and we're not in (1) a public building or gathering, (2) a school, or (3) a church I WILL be carrying.

  Mike.
• 

  Yizuman

  In Australia where all forms of weapons have been banned in the hands of everyone except criminals who ignore the laws. With the exception of sporting use. You can't own a weapon in the home and sporting weapons must be kept locked at the sporting facility at all times when not in use.

  Since the law was passed several years ago, crime shot up in all time high....here's the stats from 1997 to 1998

  VIOLENT CRIME	1997	1998	TREND
  Murder	321	284	-11.5%
  Attempted Murder	318	382	+20.1%
  Manslaughter	39	49	+25.6%
  Assault	124,500	132,967	+6.8%
  Sexual Assault	14,353	14,568	+1.5%
  Kidnaping/abduction	562	662	+17.8%
  Armed Robbery	9,054	10,850	+19.8%
  Unarmed Robbery	12,251	12,928	+5.5%
  TOTAL	161,398	172,690	+7.0%

  *from the Australia Bureau of Statistics

  As you can see, there's a 7.0% increase in crime in one year's time.

  The number of women being raped shot up by 1.5% because criminals now love it that it's against the law to have weapons in their homes.

  Look at Unarmed Robbery, clerks behind the counter can't have a weapon with them, so they just come in, demand money knowing the clerk doesn't have squat to defend themselves, even a fist is considered a weapon the land of the Aussies, you beat up a thug, you go to jail.

  Banning weapons from the hands of law abiding citizens is not a solution, it makes the crime problem worse.

  So instead we need tougher behavioral laws on criminals.

  Yizuman
• 

  Yizuman

  Simon - I think the best mix is: police can carry guns, other people can't.

  Funny Hitler and Stalon said the same thing.

  Guns cause violence, which is why there are so many mass killings at gun shows.

  Yeah, guns at the hands of citizens causes them to be violent, but Hitler's army wasn't violent. Great logic.

  Yizuman

  Edited by - Yizuman on 9 January 2003 17:12:20
• 

  Yizuman

  here's some quotes from Aussies I found when the gun law was passed banning private ownership in the home and public places except for sporting facilities.....

  • "The number of Victorians murdered with firearms has almost trebled since the introduction of tighter gun laws.
    --Geelong Advertiser, Victoria, Sept. 11, 1997.
  • "Gun crime is on the rise despite tougher laws imposed after the Port Arthur massacre, but gun control lobbyists maintain Australia is a safer place. . . . The number of robberies involving guns jumped 39% last year to 2183, according to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, and assaults involving guns rose 28% to 806. The number of gun murders, excluding the Port Arthur massacre, increased by 19% to 75."
    --"Gun Crime Rises Despite Controls," Illawarra Mercury Oct. 28, 1998.
  • "Crime involving guns is on the rise despite tougher laws. The number of robberies with guns jumped 39% in 1997, while assaults involving guns rose 28% and murders by 19%."
    --"Gun crime soars," Morning Herald, Sydney, Oct. 28, 1998.
  • "Murders by firearms have actually increased (in Victoria) since the buyback scheme, which removed 225,000 registered and unregistered firearms from circulation. There were 18 shooting murders in 1996-97, after the buyback scheme had been introduced, compared with only six in 1995-1996 before the scheme started."
    --"Killings rise in gun hunt," Herald Sun, Melbourne, Dec. 23, 1998.
  • "Victoria is facing one of its worst murder tolls in a decade and its lowest arrest rate ever."
    --Herald Sun, Melbourne, Dec. 11, 1999.
  • "The environment is more violent and dangerous than it was some time ago."
    --South Australia Police Commissioner Mal Hyde, reported in The Advertiser, Adelaide, Dec. 23, 1999.

  Yizuman
• 

  Simon

  "Shot up" by ... 1.5% ? Given stats in other countries, that seems quite a modest rise. Of course the difficulty is that you never know what would have happened without the changes - it could have been better ... or much worse. There is also the 'after effect' of legislation where people sell things that are no longer allowed, thus causing a blib in the number of guns in circulation (perhaps a possibility in the UK after the botched Dunblaine legislation?)

  Quoting extreme examples like Hitler and Stalin is a poor argument IMHO.

  I think the real problem is not 'having gun control' but how do you get there after allowing everyone to have guns? I don't think the USA could ever change even if it wanted to and needed to.

  Making it illegal to carry guns is a change. here's why:

  Before: Guy stopped in the street carrying a gun. Not caught 'committing a crime' as such so goes free. Hard to catch actually pulling the trigger.

  After: Guy stopped in the street carrying a gun. 5 Years. Ah ... much better.

  The problem the UK faces is that replica guns are so easy to purchase and convert into *real* guns but legislating against a replica is difficult - where do you draw the line ... PS2 games, cap-guns, water pistols etc ...
• 

  Simon

  Does anyone really believe that the way to make the country safer is to have more people with guns?

  Let's scale it up ...

  How about nuclear weapons? Surely using the same arguments for everone being armed means that Iraq should be allowed to arm itself?
• 

  expatbrit

  Existing US gun control laws have been mentioned several times on this thread.

  Could someone summarise for me what the current laws are? Are they federal laws, or does each state set their own laws?

  I agree that this area is one in which there is a huge cultural divide between the UK and the US. Which means it's a mistake on either side of the Atlantic to think that what works for one country(whether more control or less) must also work for the other country.

  Expatbrit
• 

  nakedmvistar

  Here in the USA they will never outright ban hanguns. But, they will make it soooo difficult that in the end, no one will be able to QUALIFY.

  Here in California, they are thinking of making it mandatory to have gun-locks installed at all times.... Makes it difficult to use "effectively". Also in cal. you can only buy one handgun a month. You also have to pass a written test and register your gun with the local police. los angeles is also thinking of licensing the sale of ammo. etc, etc...
• 

  Simon

  Anyone seen the 'Ali G' sketch where he interviews the guy from the NRA (or something similar):

  "Why don't you allow guns, but ban bullets ... or allow bullets but ban guns ... or ban guns but, wait... no, I've done that one"

  "Ok, I know, why not allow guns and bullets ... but make it so the bullets don't fit the guns"