KOREA MAKES THE CASE (page 4)

Pleasuredome

looks like there's a lot of political manouvering going at the moment. Putin seems to be strengthening old Soviet ties....

http://www.rense.com/general33/putinvowstorestore.htm

: We gave the North Koreans their Nukes and Missle Tech so they can attack Europe!! We want to control Europe so the Koreans are going to kill them for us!!! It was all planned before 9-11 which you all know was a CIA Zionist plot to kill all the Arabs so Isreal could have all the land and own all the oil so they could convert us all to Judaism!!

This is all possible because the Rothchilds are part of the Tri-Lateral Commission which, of course is controlled by the Iluminati, which in turn, is controlled by the Knights Templar, all controlled by the Catholic Church which is merely a puppet for Satan himself. Only Lyndon LaRouche can save us. He needs to be elected Emporer of Earth and all will be well again. That is, unless they release all those aliens in Area 51. If that happens, we are all doomed.

This is all Bible-Based.

Farkel

Yerusalyim

Trauma,

LOL, can you count? Hmm Dick Cheney used to be the president of Halburton company, naw they don't want oil.

That isn't proof, it's inuendo. BIG DIFFERENCE MY ANTI-WAR AT ANY COST FRIEND.

Realist, my UN-Realist friend, you said,

some of the comments are truly amazing....
you guys are talking about war as if it would be a CNN published computer game! oh how terrible it was to loose 3000 americans in NY and washington...how unhumane! SO LETS GO AND CARPET BOMB NK AND IRAQ....because these people are against our interests and hence have no right to live anyway?!
so why negotiate huh??? just bomb these bastards!!!!!????
UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Having been to war three times, I have NO ILLUSIONS about it. but NO ONE is talking about carpet bombing anything or anyone. Carpet bombing is a specific manuever not used by the US anymore, especially with lazer guided and GPS guided bombs. Yes, innocents will be killed, that's part of war, but INACTION will lead to the death of many many more.

Negotiate, we've been negotiating with Saddam for 12 years now, AIN'T WORKING, and with NK, we've been negotiating with them for 50 years. IT AIN'T working.

EVEN when they set off a nuke in NYC or LA you antiwar nuts will find a reason to excuse it and not fight back.

Trauma_Hound

That isn't proof, it's inuendo. BIG DIFFERENCE MY ANTI-WAR AT ANY COST FRIEND.

Whatever, you blind idiot, anti-war at anycost? Yep you are an idiot, since I said we were right to go into afganistan, how is that anti-war, huh Mr. Preacher man. I'm anti-killing inocent people, you are an idiot, that trys to bring up molested children, to try to make some stupid point, I would say you are other things, but well this board is censored. I don't care that you've been to war 3 times, this war is stupid, we have better things to spend money on. And this is about oil, for your information, I'm probibly closer to halburton then you will ever be, they were one of my companys customers.

mike047

Yeru; not to incite you, but could you tell me what 3 wars you were involved in??

It is my understanding that Haliburton is an oil service company, not a producer. Has this changed?

mike

Shakita

Latest News on North Korea.

Seems like Jong does not want to bargain, he just wants NUKES! And, LOTS OF THEM! If he gets some much needed aid to help his starving people, so much the better, BUT he will not do this at the expense of being recognized as a nuclear nation the likes of Pakistan and India. Jong just doesn't want to be left out of the loop!

Posted on Sat, Jan. 18, 2003

U.S. may risk worse threat by neglecting North Korea
WASHINGTON MUST DEAL WITH IT NOW, EXPERTS SAY
By Karl Schoenberger
Mercury News

Distracted by preparations for possible war in Iraq, the Bush administration is downplaying the urgency of North Korea's threat to resume its nuclear weapons program. But experts on the country say the crisis is far more grave than it appears from U.S. pronouncements. They warn that it could be too late to deal effectively with the emergence of another nuclear power in Asia after the business is finished in the Persian Gulf.

If North Korea doesn't already have one or two nuclear bombs in its arsenal, it has made it clear to the world it intends to develop such weapons unless it gets what it wants. This is not just a bluff. Experts have no doubt that Pyongyang has the technical capability -- and the pluck -- to turn spent nuclear reactor fuel rods into deadly warheads.

``My sense is that the North Koreans are going slightly berserk, mobilizing the entire society to a fevered pitch. They are cranking up the madness machine as fast as they have in 30 years,'' said Peter Hayes, director of the Nautilus Institute for Security and Sustainability, a public-policy think tank in Berkeley that focuses on nuclear weapons and energy in North Korea.

``By wasting their time, the Bush administration has created a far more difficult problem than they had in October,'' said Hayes, referring to a North Korean acknowledgment when confronted by a State Department envoy that it had a clandestine uranium-enrichment program. ``The Bush administration has no road map; it's crafting policy on the fly.''

But what does North Korea really want? To take advantage of the U.S. focus on Iraq and quickly develop nuclear capability, or to use the threat of going nuclear as a bargaining chip to gain assurances of military and economic security from the United States? North Korea watchers in and outside the government are divided on the answer.

The motivation

Most believe North Korea's actions are motivated by the desire to bargain, not by a drive to deploy nuclear weapons. It is a view shared by South Korea's incoming President Roh Moo Hyun, who told the New York Times this week that he had faith that the conciliatory approach to negotiating with Pyongyang would pay off in the end. ``North Korea wants to escape from its status as a rogue state,'' Roh said. ``I believe once those things are guaranteed, North Korea will abandon its nuclear ambitions.''

Gi-Wook Shin, a sociologist specializing in Korean nationalism at Stanford University's Asia/Pacific Research Center, said North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il and his hawkish generals are exploiting the nuclear option out of an instinct for survival.

``It's a very calculated strategy,'' Shin said. ``It may be a miscalculation, but there's good reason for North Korea to fear aggression in the current environment. The nuclear weapons program is their only bargaining chip.''

Others sharply disagree with that view. ``No carrot or confection will stop the North Korean nuclear program,'' wrote columnist Charles Krauthammer, expressing a view widely held among conservative analysts. ``Pyongyang says it wants the bomb. It does. It is not looking for reassurance. Of course North Korea will take blackmail money, too. Why not? But it will not give up its nuclear program in exchange.''

North Korea and the United States have been moving toward a confrontation since the Bush administration came into office. Even before his inauguration, Bush rejected the Clinton administration's road map for constraining nuclear proliferation in Korea as flawed, offering concessions without shutting down the North's nuclear program. The controversial 1994 Agreed Framework placed International Atomic Energy Agency monitors on the grounds of a closed nuclear facility capable of producing weapons-grade uranium and plutonium. But it did not force a dismantling of those facilities, which Bush demands.

North Korean officials were even more alarmed when Bush, after the Sept. 11 attacks, branded the country a member of the terrorist ``axis of evil.'' They expressed the fear that North Korea would be next, after Iraq, on the list of countries Washington decided were in need of a ``regime change.''

The current crisis emerged after the October disclosure that the North Koreans have been cheating on the 1994 accord. In a series of tit-for-tat actions, the United States cut off fuel-oil shipments, and North Korea told IAEA monitors to go home. Then it raised the ante by announcing it was withdrawing from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, the international accord to limit the spread of nuclear weapons.

The White House has taken a leisurely approach to the problem, dismissing the urgent concerns of South Korea, Japan and other regional U.S. allies who want to open talks with North Korea. It has stalled, refusing to negotiate an end of the conflict under nuclear ``blackmail.'' At the same time, Bush has made provocative remarks apparently intended to rattle nerves in Pyongyang, saying he ``loathes'' communist leader Kim, the son of the nation's late patriarch Kim Il Sung, and indicating he wants to topple the dynastic Stalinist government.

The rhetoric has softened in recent days with suggestions that food and energy assistance could be available on the condition that North Korea first agrees to dismantle its nuclear facilities. But in the diplomatic stalemate, North Korea is demanding assurances that the United States will guarantee that it will not use pre-emptive military force, as it is considering in Iraq. Pyongyang rejected Bush's latest gesture in shrill tones as ``deceptive drama.''

``The U.S. loudmouthed supply of energy and food aid are like a pie in the sky,'' the Foreign Ministry said in a statement carried by the Korean Central News Agency, the official media outlet notorious for its hysterical prose.

Third-party hope

Some observers are hoping China, which maintains friendly relations with North Korea, may be able to break the deadlock by hosting negotiations. Friday, a senior Russian envoy arrived in Beijing with a proposed plan to revive the 1994 Agreed Framework, the British Broadcasting Corp. reported.

But talks with the United States are not likely to succeed unless North Korea is truly willing to give up its nuclear option in exchange for an American security guarantee and for economic aid.

``What North Korea wants is a complete turnaround in their relationship with the United States. They want economic and military security,'' argued Selig S. Harrison, senior scholar at the Woodrow Wilson Institute in Washington and the author of the book ``Korea Endgame.''

Harrison said that from Pyongyang's perspective, North Koreans were the ones cheated in the 1994 Agreed Framework, because the Americans never followed up on the promise to sign a non-aggression pact and to give North Korea diplomatic recognition.

But North Korea's bellicose behavior and its paranoia make it extremely difficult to see through to that goal.

``They don't trust any outside power,'' said Kongdan ``Katy'' Oh, a North Korea analyst and co-author of ``North Korea Through the Looking Glass.''

``That's part of the national psyche. It's a totalitarian society with a strong sense of nationalism and a unique Confucian heritage that binds people in conformity and respect for authority,'' said Oh. ``Of course, it's crazy and bizarre in terms of today's international society, but its not necessarily irrational. To them, this is normal.''

Contact Karl Schoenberger at [email protected] or (415) 477-2500.

Mrs. Shakita

KOREA MAKES THE CASE