by SpiceItUp 36 Replies latest jw friends
Wow......thanks for all the good links and thoughts.
I was thinking that Noah and the flood would be a good starting point.
My father was raised a strict Catholic and converted to JW's when 18. He has also studied several evolution theories. I think that if I can get him on something he might actually be good to his word.
Looks like I have my work cut out for me. Keep em coming though. All points of views are very important on this one.
Thanks again.
The problem with using the flood is that a particularly brain-dub person will finally fall back on "Well, God made it happen, and he can perform miracles, so it doesn't HAVE to make sense or appear logical to 'human wisdom' (hack spit)"
Although attacking the bible itself works fine if someone is already leaning towards secular thought, it is quite fruitless to attack it when arguing with a die-hard fundie or JW.
Best bet is to attack THEIR interpretation of it, using their bible alone. (IE., the fall of Jerusalem being in 586/7 instead of 607 may also SEEM like a good place to start, but it's not. See, the whole world is 'lying in the power of the wicked one', and so all the tons of evidence pointing to Jerusalems fall in 586/7 has been faked, while whatever evidence there was pointing to the 'true' date of 607 was completely erased, such that none exists today.)
It's a much harder fight, and takes a lot more research, but in the end their only defense against it can be "Human error" followed by "Must wait on jehovah". If your dad has already agreed to forsake such a position (he seems to have), these arguments can possibly win through.
Perhaps another good approach is here:
http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/1991/1/1boobo91.html
Which is entitled 'Scientific Boo-Boos in the Bible'. It covers a couple of them. Another one is the translation of the earth as a circle in space, when it is clearly a sphere. (Unless, of course, it was flat!) Yes, there are different words in Aramaic for circle and sphere, Isaiah called the Earth a circle. (It has been presumed that when Isaiah was referring to a 'circle', he meant the extent to which the Earth had been explored...IE., like a 'circle of friends' or 'circle of nations' does not require a LITERAL circle. However, as the JWs frequently use this verse to explain the 'scientific' validity of the bible, it's okay to attack)
Re: Noah & flood
Ask him if he believes God uses His bow (a rainbow) to shoot arrows of lightning.
Hebrew Word: TXq
Transliterated Word: qesheth
Book to Display: Genesis
Verse Count: 7
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Ge 9:13 I set My bow in the cloud, and it shall be for a sign of a covenant between Me and the earth.
Ge 9:14 "And it shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud,
Ge 9:16 "When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth."
ARROWS
Psa77:17 The clouds poured out water: the skies sent out a sound: thine arrows also went abroad.
2 Samuel 22:15
He shot arrows and scattered [the enemies], bolts of lightning and routed them.
Psalm 18:14
He shot his arrows and scattered [the enemies], great bolts of lightning and routed them.
Psalm 144:6
Send forth lightning and scatter [the enemies]; shoot your arrows and rout them.
Psalm 64:7 But God shall shoot at them with an arrow; suddenly shall they be wounded.
Num24:8 God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.
Deu32:23 I will heap mischiefs upon them; I will spend mine arrows upon them.
Psa7:13 He hath also prepared for him the instruments of death; he ordaineth his arrows against the persecutors.
OK, Xander and Mustang! Thanks for adding to the 'Jehovah ain't in the Greek Scriptures' point. I think we share a sense that the key is to show that the bible, as translated by the WTS, is flawed.
Spice: I got home a few minutes ago and pulled out a couple booklets that I ordered a while ago. "The Divine Name in the NWT" and "Jehovah in the New Testament." They are short and are available for a free download (not copyrighted) at: http://home.europa.com/~lynnlund/itmidx2.htm
In there you will find detailed explanations of the capricious use of the transaltion rules that the WTS claims to have used. You'll also see how those translations were used to change the emphasis away from Christ the mediator toward Jehovah. Those booklets use as much of the WTS explanations as possible.
they are a quick read and well worth it.
Let me know what you think.
Here is an article that I wrote that deals with some of the numerical inconsistencies in the Bible: http://www.infidels.org/library/magazines/tsr/2001/4/014num.html
Some of the Bible's claims are simply numerically impossible.
Now lets calculate just how many quail were involved here. Most bible dictionaries consider a days journey to be approximately 20 miles, so a circle with a radius of 20 miles would have an area of 1,256 sq. miles. The quail filled this area to a depth of 2 cubits, or 35 inches. This makes 102 billion cubic feet of quail. The quail is a fairly small bird, averaging one pound in weight, and 13 inches in height. Based on this size, each quail would occupy 0.72 cubit feet. Therefore, God must have blessed the Israelites with approximately 142 billion quail. That's over 47,000 quails for every Israelite. It must have been like an early version of Alfred Hitchcocks The Birds.
My personal favorite.
