A Plan to Stop Gun Violence (page 3)

ballistic

About taxing drugs;

cigarettes are taxed at a higher rate in Great Britain than anywhere in the world. We pay around 4.50 - 5.00 per pack of 20 here. ($1.60 = 1.00)

What has happened? A huge boot-legging / black market has evolved. You are constantly offered imported fags whereever you go. You can't walk into a bar now in some parts of England without being taken into the car park and get shown the contents of someones boot.

I walked into a shop the other day, in a completely different town to my own, and the guy in the front was buying cigarettes from "under the counter".

Profit in it can't be as "high" as in the drugs market, but lets just say, if people can profiteer from fags, they will do likewise if drugs were taxed.

The government here are still putting taxes up on cigs here as it is working; people are leaving smoking in droves. But those who are left are all smoking imports. They did one survey by collecting all the discarded packs from an entire football ground after a match and over 50% were illegal imports.

Crazy151drinker

Ballistic, you have a point. If you make the price high enough, it becomes profitable for others smuggle. Being that good pot here in Cali is higher than gold per ounce its easy to see how profitable dealing can be. I figure price it so the Cartels in columbia cannot afford to import it. Even better, we hire the same coca farmers to grow it, they still get paid and we cut out the cartels.

jws

In general I agree with the legalization and taxation and more money being spent on treatment of addicitons.

But one thing I still question is the notion that if you take away the drug business that the crime and violence stops along with it.

Perhaps the addict can buy cheaper and does not need to steal to support a habit. But the drug dealers themselves? Criminals are people who want to take the risks and make the big bucks. If it's not drugs, most will probably make a switch to some other form of illegal trade. You might eliminate the small-time dealers who make enough to support their personal habit, but the ones who are willing to commit real crimes are probably not going to go get an office job and live happily ever after. If they were willing to do that, they'd have paid for an education and gone the risk-free route as soon as they could afford to. Perhaps by legalizing the drug trade these people will start in (as stated) the tax-free smuggling trade. Or maybe they'll start holding up people or breaking into homes, increasing violence.

When you have people who are so economically depressed and their only option is to take the big risk, even if it means becoming a criminal, they will do it. You're just eliminating one way to take the risk without eliminating the base of the problem. That is a poor class of people without a lot of other options.

And granted, some of this problem will move to other countries. What of the South American people who make a living in the drug trade? What does it do to their overall economy? Legal drugs may allow them a new cash crop helping them. But I think more money is pumped into their economy with the illegal trade than a legal one could provide. Now you've got a bunch of new people pissed off at the US and ready to become the next wave of terrorists - and a lot closer to us too.

SpannerintheWorks

Legalize all drugs. I assume that is for everyone, everywhere. What a ludicrous suggestion!

"Good morning, Sir, how can I help you?"

"Er... bread, milk, a dozen eggs, 500 worth of heroin, two dozen syringes and half a kilo of cocaine

for the wife. Oh, yeah, and is Lucille available for the afternoon?"

Is that the sad, depraved world you wish for?

P.S. Drugs are highly addictive, by the way!

Spanner

Edited by - SpannerintheWorks on 28 January 2003 6:58:43

jelly

Spannerintheworks,

I agree with you that drugs are destructive and terrible. I am defiantly anti-drug; but, I am also pro-solution. What the government is doing at the moment is simply not working and is in itself destructive to peoples lives. I think an actual solution would be to legalize and control, and then treat it like the government treats tobacco. The campaign against tobacco in America is working, less and less people are smoking. Along with the legalization should come very strict laws limiting exactly where and when the stuff could be sold, advertised, and consumed. Not a perfect solution I know but a better one that the current I think.

Terry

SpannerintheWorks

Jelly,

Do I get your drift? Are you saying that it would be 0.K. to legalize drugs (which would automatically increase the number of users

and therefore create more and more addicts), as long as the usage is controlled?

Let's use that "solution" to control, say, accidents caused by speeding in towns and cities. There is usually a 30MPH limit, but isn't it

tempting for some people to race through the streets way in excess of that, about 40-50MPH? But there is a solution! It is now LEGAL

for them to drive as fast as they like! As long as these drivers are "controlled", our cities will be much safer places! NOT!

Spanner

Edited by - SpannerintheWorks on 28 January 2003 6:59:16

jelly

No, I think maybe I failed to clearly make my point. If drugs were legalized the immediate effect on the number of users would not change. Drug users are going to be drug users no matter the law. What has to be changed is the way society views the drugs. If society as a whole sees drugs in the same way you do then I believe the drug problem will disappear. The question is how? How, do we change the view of society?

The model solution I see is how cigarettes are treated in America. Cigarettes are highly taxed with the part of the revenue going for a very successful ad campaign detailing the effects of tobacco smoke. This ad campaign has been very effective in changing the way Americans view smoking and the numbers are dropping.

Legalizing drugs is not the perfect solution but it is the only one I see. What is being done now is simply not working.

I guess in short what I am saying is that I have seen the way the government is treating tobacco use (as addictive as herion) and the results are good. I have also seen the results of the war on drugs and it seems to be failing.

Terry

SpannerintheWorks

Jelly,

Maybe we are looking at this from different perspectives. I would like to see the usage of (presently) illegal drugs to decrease. I cannot

see the logic that by legallizing such drugs, the usage would decrease. If the smoking of cigarettes had always been illegal, do you

think that there would now be nearly half of most countries' population addicted to cigarettes?

The model solution I see is how cigarettes are treated in America. Cigarettes are highly taxed with the part of the revenue going for a very successful ad campaign detailing the effects of tobacco smoke.

So, legallize drugs=increase usage=increase revenue=more cash to rehabilitatate addicts... A big "?" to that one! If illegal drugs are

legallized, then there would be an increase in revenue to rehabilitate the many more people that have become addicts due to the

legallization of hard drugs...???

Spanner

david_10

Are you people for real? Sheesh I can't believe I'm reading this. Let me get this straight: Decriminalize drugs and go ahead and throw guns and prostitution into the mix. Now that sure ought to solve everybody's problems, shouldn't it. Well, at least Spanner and Truthseeker have a little bit of sense. Let me share with you a question from today's (Monday, January 27) Dear Abby column. I'll just copy it word for word because it seems pertinent to this discussion :

Dear Abby : My husband has a serious problem with alchohol and drugs, and I don't know what to do to get him some help. He's tried to quit on his own, but he just can't fight it. It's really gotten bad, Abby. I want to save our marriage, but don't know where to begin. New Jersey Wife

Abby goes on to give the only advice that she can give: counseling, Al-Anon and good luck. My observation is that one of this poor man's problems, alchohol, is legal. The other isn't. For the life of me, I can't see that giving him two legal addictions is going to help him in the least. I think his problems would spiral completely out of control. He and his wife can't even handle the legal one he has. Would his problem be well-served by giving him legal drugs and letting him buy as many guns as he wants, just wait 5 days? It makes me shudder to think about it.

So what is the solution? I wish to God I knew, but I don't. I used to think I knew everything, but in my old age, I've decided that I don't know nuthin'. (Old age is humbling.) But making drugs available over-the-counter at Wal-Mart is ridiculous. There seems to be a popular trend going on that is called "WWJD". You know : "What Would Jesus Do?" To tell you the truth, I have no idea what Jesus would do about this. I doubt if there's anything he could do.

David

Vivamus

So, I'll just give my added two cents to this conversation. SInce I live in the country for free drugs, I can tell you that's working [don't take me as an examle tho ] We have the lowest rate when it comes to addicts. The hard core drug addicts will even be provided with drugs from the government, and so, all are happy.

*Feels smug to live in such a grand country*

A Plan to Stop Gun Violence

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