The USA and the 'Divine Mandate'

by Abaddon 34 Replies latest jw friends

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  Abaddon

  Having had a bizzare (for a European) preoccupation with American history in the 19th C, I do find that current American Foreign policy still has implict in it the religiously inspired rationale that enabled Americans to seriously claim that the ethnic cleansing of the West, and the genocidal behaviours that this often entailed, was because God wanted them to do it.

  From certain newspaper articles I've read it seems as if some of those in the White House believe that Bush getting in despite not having the majority of the popular vote was a sign, and that 9/11 backed up their belief that Bush was a man put in a certain place for a certain time and role. That Bible Studies are a regular expected activity of White House staffers.

  Now, this makes me VERY NERVOUS. I prefer my religious fanatics to come from developing countries that MAY have weapons of mass destruction, rather than from the most powerful millitary country in the world with more weapons of mass destruction than the rest of the world put together.

  Obviously just because it was in a newspaper doesn't mean it's true (yesterday's Guardian I think).

  But what do you think?

  1/ Do members of the Bush administration feel that their campaign against the axis of (we)evil is backed by God?

  2/ How does this make them different from other peope who believe their campaigns are backed by God?

  3/ Is current American foreign policy influenced by some pseudo-religious view of the USA as a great peace-maker?

  4/ If so, does this make it any less wrong than the obviously evil 'Divine Mandate' of the 19th C? If so, why?

  I'd appreciate if people would answer the questions, rather than speechifying or going off on one, and possibly to back up their answers, as I am not really asserting my opinion here but seeing if press coverage of the issue reflects what 'ordinary' American's feel.

  I pesonally love the story of a Royalist commander from the English Civil War, who would loudly ask before battle that god keep out of it and let the humans settle it between themselves...
• 

  kelsey007

  My answer in a nutshell:

  I recently caught a tv interview with Jerry Falwell- the ultra right wing religious fanatic. He stated that he was never invited to the white house during the Clinton admin. But since Bush has been prez it is is second home. He wants four more years of Jr and then Jeb.

  And under the Bush admin he was proud to announce that he was on his way to buy a new Hummer!

  Does that naswer your question?
• 

  Wolfgirl

  1/ Do members of the Bush administration feel that their campaign against the axis of (we)evil is backed by God?

  That is my impression.

  2/ How does this make them different from other peope who believe their campaigns are backed by God?

  It doesn't.

  3/ Is current American foreign policy influenced by some pseudo-religious view of the USA as a great peace-maker?

  Yes. That, and the view that they are better than anyone else (holier than thou), and thus have the right to impose their views on everyone else.

  4/ If so, does this make it any less wrong than the obviously evil 'Divine Mandate' of the 19th C? If so, why?

  No.
• 

  Francois

  1/ Do members of the Bush administration feel that their campaign against the axis of (we)evil is backed by God?

  As an American, I certainly hope not. People who have "God on their side" are pretty much anathema to me and most other Americans. Jerry Falwell is an idiot.

  2/ How does this make them different from other peope who believe their campaigns are backed by God?

  It doesn't.

  3/ Is current American foreign policy influenced by some pseudo-religious view of the USA as a great peace-maker?

  Wrong, Wolfgirl. The American people do not entertain this belief. And I don't, can't believe that Bush believe any such nonsense. Frankly, I'm tired of being taxed to death to pay for quelling wars and evil anywhere on the planet where they may break out. However, I also feel it's unfair, grossly so, for the world to act like we should be the world's policemen, and then give us Hell when we comply. Decide what you want for chrissake and stop with the two-faced hypocrisy. (I will say I couldn't tolerate that female secretary of state wazherface, Albright. I heard her say that because we were somehow "higher" we could therefore see "further." I thought that was bullshit when she said it and it's still bullshit today.

  4/ If so, does this make it any less wrong than the obviously evil 'Divine Mandate' of the 19th C? If so, why?

  No. And your question - to be competent - relies on a positive answer to your #3. You seem to be speaking to a choir somewhere. I don't and wouldn't have agreed with the idea of "manifest destiny" had I been alive at the time. I personallly deplore what that generation did to the Red Man. I feel we have forever lost much that was good, and right, and valuable, and could have been important to us today. Not everyone in the US thinks the same. We are not a united mass, with mass thinking, mass agreement, or mass anything else. Can you rephrase your questions to make them more fair, and less like you're talking to a mindless choir?

  francois
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  Perry

  Where are you from Abaddon?
• 

  Abaddon

  Francois; I note you say "I certainly hope not" and "And I don't, can't believe ". A lot of us went through a phase like that when we saw the threads of our belief in the WBTS unravel; we didn't and couldn't believe it was untrue. Now, I can supply exact quotes from the newspaper, so rather than telling me what you'd like to believe, try backing it up with something documented.

  Perry; Is your question even vaugely pertinent? Will you type the answer in Dutch if I confirm I am in Holland as my Profile says? Or are you just setting up for a cheap shot based on me (as any fool will tell you) not being American, and therefore <insert text here>?

  So answer the question, or don't.
• 

  Perry

  are you just setting up for a cheap shot based on me (as any fool will tell you) not being American,

  Can we say PARANOIA? I really don't know what the Bush administration thinks about your questions. I never really cared. I'm sure you can find the Whitehouse web-site; why don't you ask them?

  I wonder if the fallen 13,700 mainly American soldiers who died on your soil ridding it of the 100,000 German soldiers gave a flying flip about some hokey divine mandate?

  I'm sure they thought, "Let's go parachute into a hail of anti-aircraft fire over Holland and free the poor bastards that lost their country in 5 days to the Germans." Oh shit we can't, " the people of Holland are hung up on something called a divine mandate. They did their job...that's it; nobody was thinking about mandates.

  Or maybe you should ask the relatives of the 236,000 of your countrymen who died as a result of the German occupation if they gave a shit about anybody's supposed divine mandate.

  But please, please tell us if you uncover this divine mandate and tell us how naughty it is. Bad mandate.....bad mandate.

  Puke.
• 

  Xander

  Do members of the Bush administration feel that their campaign against the axis of (we)evil is backed by God?

  Well, Bush was sure enough to say so several times in the State of the Union address last night, so I'd say, yes, they believe that to be true. At least, they SAY they do to appease the public. Which may well be worse, if that's really what the US public wants (sadly, it is).

  But please, please tell us if you uncover this divine mandate and tell us how naughty it is. Bad mandate.....bad mandate.

  So sayeth a bible-thumper happy to have a 'christian white house'.
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  Perry

  Xander LOOK! There's a mandate.... hurry kill it; it's not like you....must be Baddd.

  LMAO
• 

  Abaddon

  Perry, good to see like death and taxes, you never really change and are unavoidable.

  You accuse me of paranoia, and then procede to do exactly what I'd thought you'd do based upon your irrelevent question regading my nationality... do you want to know what colour I am too? I wasn't paranoid Perry, I was RIGHT. One thing, two things, DIFFERENT.

  If you don't care about my questions, WHY are you answering them? Someone hijacked your keyboard?

  You bring up the war and fail to see that the tardiness THEN in the American response to despots was against both the long term interests of the USA and their supposed allies, and fail to see how lack of foresight or indeed on occasion morality in foreign policy has AGAIN put America in a situation where it has to act,; perhaps training Osama Bin Ladin and supporting Sadam Hussain were not really bright things for the USA to do.

  You also assume I'm Dutch cause I live there, and almost seem to want a hummer for the fact that more Americans died than would have if the USA had taken a stand against despotism earlier. Oooo! Unpleasent truths! Run! Hide!

  You also use your blustering as a cover to the fact you don't answer the questions.

  Leopards. Change. Don't. Spots. Their. Rearrange the words into a well know sentence.

  Love and kisses