And as much as I had run-ins with them, I miss Jan Haugland, Kent Steinhaug, Mommy Dark, and many many more. These people had great moments on this board, too. And, great posts.
I'll toss my hat in with Englishman's idea.
A Few Thoughts On Barred Posters.
by Englishman 35 Replies latest jw friends
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Simon
Thanks for the suggestions - you've obviously been giving it some thought and I'm always keen to improve things and will of course consider all the points raised. These are my initial thoughts on it ...
First of all, let me say that I never take delight in deactivating anyone. It is a last resort and I only do it when I think I have to and I have no other choice.
Some past examples are:
- People spamming the board
- Posting obscene pictures or stories
- Soliciting funds by pretending to be in need (but really a troll)
- Threatening or abusive speech (directed against other posters)
- Demands to be deactivated (followed by shouts of 'look, I've been banned)
- (actually, I think this has been a problem and don't intend to pander to these requests anymore as they have frequently been a ploy allow people to claim they were banned months after the real events have been forgotten by most people)
- Attempts to defame and ruin someone's reputation
These should not, IMHO, be confused with the times when emotive topics are discussed, strong opinions are held and tempers inevitably fray. In these cases, most reasonable people will cool off and deactivation (even temporary) never needs to be even considered and would be inappropriate - a request either personally by email or on the board is usually sufficient.
However, these heated debates (or even the random 'personality clashes') are different to the cases of ongoing grudges that seem to be carried on. Incredibly, people carry on some grievances for years (literally!!!) and I doubt that a few extra days or weeks for them to cool off is really going to make much difference.
One problem is that people carrying on these ongoing personal disagreements start to consume a disproportionate amount of attention and time. They look for any slightest excuse in a post by the other party to 'resume hostilities' and if they are pulled up for it, the reaction is always to try and excuse it or claim they are being singled out unfairly. Yes, two people could be involved in separate arguments and post similar things but if one is a 99% 'regular' poster who has just got angry and the other is someone continuing a quarrel that started 2 years and 3 forums ago then they will be treated differently. As well as the content, I usually consider the frequency - yes, we all fall out from time to time and have 'bad days' but some people seem to fall out with everyone, all the time. It would be unfair to boot someone off for one thing at a time when it may be something is happening that they really need some support.
I personally doubt that temporary deactivations would make much difference if any. I've tried it in the past and the results were exactly the same. If anything, it made things worse because things dragged on longer and people came back determined and able to cause more trouble or rehash things, provoke other people and generally try and 'make a point'. In some cases, they insisted on coming back just so that they could then demand to be deactivated again!
One thing that it would definitely do is create extra work at a time when I would like to cut down on the amount of time that it takes to manage or at least not increasing it as the number of members and posts increases. Really, seriously, people make much too big a deal out of small things like having a post edited or being asked to tone things down a little and I wonder how these people manage to function in society in general. Maybe they don't and that is why online forums and the like are so important to them?
I have even tried using reduced posting limits and removing the chat option and this too was of limited effectiveness. It seems that something 'clicks' and when people decide to become abusive then ... that is it.
Now, I have never claimed to be omnipotent, omniscient or infallible - I have always been willing to admit when I think I am wrong and I leave my mistakes up on the board for people to see. However, some people cross the line and take disagreeing and differences of opinion beyond what is normal and conduct what can only be described as obsessive hate compaigns against me. Any admition of a mistake and subsequent public correction is then greeted with whoops of "he lied, he lied !" by those who have no real interest in the the real truth. The problem is that I have not always shared all the things I know about a lot of the things that have gone on because I either do not want to create more disruption on the forum or there are other people who are involved and I do not want to betray any confidences or put people at risk.
With this in mind, I would say that because of the serious nature of some people's behaviour there are those who I would never be willing to have back on my forum as I am not willing to expose myself, my family and other forum members to what would inevitably transpire as I do not believe that they would ever be willing or capable of changing.
For others, as I've said before, I would be willing to forgive and forget (sometimes 'again') with one important 'caveat': I would expect a full apology for any lies told about me and for them to set things straight. If they are willing to do this then I may be willing to let people back on but if they are not then I would not have any reason to think that they were sincere or wanted to take part sensibly.
Now, as regards having a 'very strict set of written rules' ... this is not going to happen. The forum has worked, on the whole, very well for almost three years and I put much of this down to flexibility and common sense - being able to decide things on a case-by-case basis. The problem with a strict set of prescriptive rules is that they pander to the unreasonable people who don't look at the spirit behind things but only want to go off the 'letter of the law' like a set of lawyers. Unfortunately, I don't believe rigid rules would be effective and you would end up with people being 'clever' and finding loopholes and clauses leading to demands for even more complicated rules that no one would ever be able to keep up with as well as people being caught by them when they didn't really warrant it (and the same people who avoid them then clamouring for action). The fact that many of the people who have been most determined to knowingly spread lies about me and slander me have also been the keenest for me to create such rule leads me to believe that it would not be for the best for the forum.
I think sensible people, acting like adults and having some respect and consideration for each other is the best option. The only rule really needed is surely "be nice and be civil" which those who have been here from the beginning will I'm sure remember.
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Simon
These are the 'posting guidelines' that are going to be on the new site:
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happyout
As a relatively new member to the board, I may not have much to say, but I want to go on record that there have definitely been people I have read on this site that a short de-activation period would not work for. I am not going to name names, it's not necessary, but if someone is so enflamed that they will create many user names just to prove they can get back on the board whenever they want, that person would probably not benefit for long from a cooling off period. I think Simon and the moderators are doing a great service, it has been invaluable to me, and it's their playground, so I will play by their rules. I have been introduced to some fascinating people and thoughts, and I am really grateful to have found this forum.
Thanks to all the people who post here, you have added a new dimension to my way of thinking.
Happyout
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Seven
Maybe it would be a good idea, if, rather than actually barring someone, they were to receive a compulsory "time-out" period, say of 7days or so. Then, for one example, if 2 or more posters were flaming each another, they would all just be suspended for a 7 day period. There wouldn't necessarily be too much stigma to such a course of action, nor would it be always essential to make an announcement that such a thing had occured. No he saids she saids, just the fact that they are carrying on like that being the problem as opposed to who is right or wrong.
I could live with this only if the thread(s) in question be placed in a viewable deletions bin and others not "timed-out" who start the shite stirring and continue the discussion in their absence, join them in limbo for a week. The whole situation is becoming very tiresome. I mean, how many years is it going to take?
On another board I moderate the rules call for a three month suspension, a six, then you're gone. Seldom does anyone require a six. Some of the best posters there have served a three, myself included. If a poster doesn't get it after a number of suspensions they're never going to. For some it's pointless. You must be consistent and unbiased in who you choose to banish and a moderator doesn't need to be in a poster's face constantly. The best moddys I know are ones that nobody knows.. :) They're assigned numbers by the admin.
Good thread, EM.
seven
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waiting
Well, hey there, Simon.
I DO believe that's the longest post I've ever seen you make. Of course, the subject matter is something you've been intimately involved with for 3 years now, eh? Maybe even more intimate than your with your wife.....on occasion? That was a j-o-k-e for the humor impaired.
The fact that many of the people who have been most determined to knowingly spread lies about me and slander me have also been the keenest for me to create such rule leads me to believe that it would not be for the best for the forum.
Interesting. That could be true. It could also be true that they want to know the farther recesses of the rules so that they can step as closely as possible to the line without crossing over. Or just argue the finites of the line itself towards the infinite.
I think sensible people, acting like adults and having some respect and consideration for each other is the best option.
Well, that's certainly asking a lot of the posters here, don'tcha think?
The only rule really needed is surely "be nice and be civil" which those who have been here from the beginning will I'm sure remember.
Ooooooooooooooo! I remember your Civil Rule! I actually thought it pretty good.
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Simon
I always liked "civil simon" ... it was so much nicer than "simple simon" lol
Of course, the subject matter is something you've been intimately involved with for 3 years now, eh? Maybe even more intimate than your with your wife.....on occasion?
Eek ... you'll be saying things like 'known (in the biblical sense)" and "begat" next !!
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ISP
I can't remember who is a barred poster and who are just not posting. A temp ban seems Ok.
ISP
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Englishman
I would expect a full apology for any lies told about me and for them to set things straight. If they are willing to do this then I may be willing to let people back on but if they are not then I would not have any reason to think that they were sincere or wanted to take part sensibly.
Simon, all of us here are aware that there are some posters out there who have told lies about you, and are indeed doing so right now. We all know it's basically down to jealousy.
But there are some people who have unwisely attached themselves to persons like that who want out. Persons who have not made serious and false accusations against you, this board or the persons who post here. But, in order to get out, and return here, do we really want them to give an abject apology?
Maybe we should be able to say to these people: "Welcome back to the party, no hard feelings, just don't puke in the custard / fart in the car wash / crap on my front lawn again?"
Englishman.
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AGuest
May you all have peace!
Talk about a "flashback" (to the "good old H20 days"): time-outs... visible deletion bins... reprove... mark... disfellowship... but not...!!
Dear Simon, may I make a suggestion, as well? And that would be... to do... nothing. Absolutely nothing. We should all be capable of either policing ourselves... or choosing which threads to be apart of (or not). If we engage... it is because we WANT to engage... for no one has control over our fingers (whether it's to turn on the computer, move the mouse, or type a response)... but we ourselves.
For those who continually look to Simon to "moderate" (poor guy, as if being a husband and just running the place technically ain't enough!)... may I remind you that many of us came from a situation that did just that: told us what to say, when to say it, how to say it... and BANNED us when we deviated according to THEIR liking. Can you not see that what is being suggested here is exactly how such things get started: everyone starts out "equal", with no "master"... and then the NEED FOR CONTROL takes over and some just HAVE to "organize", because some "deviate"... say things that aren't, well, "nice". But why IS that? Why do we have to control EVERYTHING?
If you KNOW someone is a "trouble-maker" (and yes, I know some consider me as such, but that's their... ummm... "issue"...), then DON'T OPEN THEIR THREADS. If they impose on or respond to one of yours... ignore them. If they scream and shout (oh, c'mon... can you REALLY scream and shout on the Internet... I mean, really?! True, folks can EMPHASIZE... but since there is NO SOUND... the former is impossible, ain't it?!)
People come and go here all the time. Some stay away perpetually; some come back after awhile. Some... just go "do" life, for a few days/weeks. Others... NEVER leave! And we, all of us, have our moments of thin-skinnedness... as well as offensiveness. ALL of us, although not all of us always INTEND to be offensive, while others sometimes/always do! And we ALL know that there are ridiculers and provocators out there, "trolls" and "flamers". So what? No one can make you "feel" anything you don't LET them with this type of forum, because nothing is really "in your face"... unless YOU put it there by considering the thread/post.
In consideration of what is TRULY important in this world, then, may I say to you as some say:
"Don't sweat the small stuff... and it's ALL small stuff!"
Ignore whomever you will and... live and let live.
Again, I bid you peace!
Your servant and slave of Christ,
SJ