The Show of Over-Patriotism Astounds Me (page 5)

D8TA

Remember people, these arguments always work:

"I'm 50 years old, my age show I know more then people younger then me...just ignore the facts that are present".

"It's liberal talk."

and

"I don't see anybody getting arrested, there's no rights being taken away...your talking crazy."

Well, in your eye:

http://www.criminaljustice.org/public.nsf/testimony/2001lt021?OpenDocument

http://www.agrnews.org/issues/202/nationalnews.html#nation2

http://www.detnews.com/2002/livingston/0208/01/d05l-551008.htm

http://www.westernfrontonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/01/31/3e3b00ed289fd

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/TechTV/techtv_patriotactsuit021028.html

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/06/23/MN75593.DTL

http://zdnet.com.com/2100-1105-933202.html

And heaven forbid, the FBI visited a library. What books did they collect and burn? Or, is it that they may look at what is being said on a PUBLIC computer?

Is this about "book burning" or "censorship", no it is not...so stick to the topic. It's about rights to privacy. When is it the FBI's business about ANYBODY'S reading habits. Your "public library" argument doesn't fly, due to the FACT that they can investigate ANYBODY about their PRIVATE book buying habits at a LOCAL AND PRIVATE BUSINESS BOOK STORE! Try again Skippy!

Troops are not roaming the streets gunning down innocent civilians.

There are no mass concentration camps where "hundreds of innocent people" are being held.

A violation of one's rights and freedoms does not conclude with this type of activity. This is junior high...no it's frickin elementary school logic. Try again Skippy!

No one is being monitored due to religious belief or political leanings.

And my links on this post PROVE otherwise...again...try again Skippy!

So far, all we have against my EVIDENCE and FACTS (by Farkel and Dakota) is ignorant opinion & blind trust of the government...as well as labeling and name calling.

If you have something of value to contradict this evidence, please present it.

And again...both of you know me well enough, that I like to set people up with an argument. Like I said...no...I WARN...give it a few weeks and; There will be someone from THIS board, that YOU know (not me, not even an associate/friend of mine) will be telling a story about how NOTHING TO DO WITH TERRORISM...led to abuse by Federal Authorities as to their simple activity as to inquiry and protest.

The problem is, one day it's going to hit you directly or somebody you care about...and you'll be saying; "Well shit, D8TA (damn that arrogant bastard)...he was right after all".

Yerusalyim

D8TA,

As you bellowed on about losing freedoms, I didn't see you enumerate a single freedom either you or I have lost. Nor have you presented a balance between legitimate security concerns as oppossed to the suppossed freedoms we've lost.

D8TA

As you bellowed on about losing freedoms, I didn't see you enumerate a single freedom either you or I have lost.

So "bellowed" the faithful Centurion and servant of Rome...

Xander

If you were to ask the founding fathers, I'm sure they'd agree that there is no 'balancing act' between security concerns and freedom. Freedom comes first, at any cost. Else, what's the point? How many died in the American Revolution for just that reason? Were the American soldiers who fought the British for their freedom all escapees from illegal detention? Did most of those who died in the revolution actually experience any loss of freedom?

Yet, they believed that a system that had ANYONE having their freedom restricted was worth dying to oppose.

Yerusalyim

D8TA,

You said,

So "bellowed" the faithful Centurion and servant of Rome...

Cute answer, but you still didn't answer the question. What rights have you or I lost, and what is the balance between personal "freedoms" and legitimate security concerns post 9-11? Sarcasm general stems from a lack of valid arguement.

Satanus

Maybe the old martin niemoeller saying applies here;

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out--
because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me--
and there was no one left to speak out for me.

And so, we can start by saying:

First they came for the arabs, and i did not speak out--because i was not an arab

SS

Edited by - saintsatan on 10 February 2003 14:24:31

D8TA

What rights have you or I lost

And you should read the entire thread, so we may not REHASH what has already been said. But I'll humor you.

FREEDOM OF ASSOCIATION: Government may monitor religious and political institutions without suspecting criminal activity to assist terror investigations. http://www.agrnews.org/issues/202/nationalnews.html#nation2

FREEDOM OF SPEECH: Government may prosecute librarians or keepers of any other records if they tell anyone that the government subpoenaed information related to a terror investigation.

http://www.westernfrontonline.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/01/31/3e3b00ed289fd

( why don't you try reading some of the links first before asking stupid questions, and wasting thread space, I have been providing "what rights and freedoms" that have been lost)

FREEDOM FROM UNREASONABLE SEARCHES: Government may search and seize Americans' papers and effects without probable cause to assist terror investigation.

http://www.detnews.com/2002/livingston/0208/01/d05l-551008.htm

RIGHT TO LEGAL REPRESENTATION: Government may monitor federal prison jailhouse conversations between attorneys and clients, and deny lawyers to Americans accused of crimes. http://www.criminaljustice.org/public.nsf/testimony/2001lt021?OpenDocument

FREEDOM OF INFORMATION: Government has closed once-public immigration hearings, has secretly detained hundreds of people without charges, and has encouraged bureaucrats to resist public records questions. ( shall I continue to list links, or are you too lazy to read them for yourself....go over ALL the links and quit wasting my time. This is covered -in the links- as to the FIOA being compromised and even denied to media and the public.)

and what is the balance between personal "freedoms" and legitimate security concerns post 9-11

It's called "innocent until proven guilty",

it's called "a right to a speedy trial thru due process",

It's called the "right to free expression"

It's called the right "to assemble peacefully".

It's called the right as to "search and seizure".

The "balance" lays with the people of the United States to take the responsibility as to hold the government accountable for the way it exercises its powers. Not the other way around.

Sarcasm general stems from a lack of valid arguement.

Thanks for your OPINION, duly noted...don't like it? Tough shit. Don't like the way I handle my threads? Don't read them.

Again...If you have something of value to contradict this evidence, please present it.

Yerusalyim

It's called "innocent until proven guilty",
it's called "a right to a speedy trial thru due process",
It's called the "right to free expression"
It's called the right "to assemble peacefully".
It's called the right as to "search and seizure".

Can ya tell me when any of these things have NOT happened?

Xander

Ah, so that makes it okay.

D8TA

Again...If you have something of value to contradict this evidence, please present it.

The Show of Over-Patriotism Astounds Me

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